Is Solar / Sunrun a Good Deal for You? Calculations and Things to Consider

[biers]

As covered in many other threads on this site and elsewhere (YouTube), an interlock won't work with pro power. You need a generator transfer switch/critical loads panel.

I think the consideration for the HIS is system is the following:

1. Do you have long enough outages, or dependency on power that you need backup. For me, being on well is the tipping point, as no power AND no water sucks!

2. Is the truck battery enough, or do you need solar to charge the battery during the day (if in fact HIS does this, we still don't know for sure).

3. Do you have a use case otherwise, say a off grid cabin that you can power with solar, and when you are there, with the truck.

Well crap, looks like I'm ordering another part. At least I can use most of what I put in. Thanks for the heads up.

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[Amps]

Well crap, looks like I'm ordering another part. At least I can use most of what I put in. Thanks for the heads up.

While you're spending money, you're probably going to need an 30A extension cord longer than the 10' cord supplied with the 6854. Something like this, if you don't already have one:

https://www.amazon.com/L14-30P-L14-30R-Generator-Extension-Yellow/dp/B07TRQDDQ9/

 

[biers]

Picked up a 6852 off eBay ($295 best offer accepted) already had a 20’ cord with what I bought.

 

[jefro]

In my case the cost is way too high for what I need. I can see people with a need for it.

 

[LSP]

Lots of discussion about using your new Lightning to power your home. But this would require an upfront investment (SunRun or Other) of up to $40,000 for an 8-10 KW System. A system of this size would be required for a larger home. If you do not buy it for cash you will also pay interest and have increasing depreciation over the next 25 years. Also add in some maintenance costs each year. It is debatable on how much value the system will add in home resale value. It depends on the market and finding buyers who value solar.

The value of the system can increase depending on whether your utility allows net metering where they "buy-back" unused energy but currently most of those rates are about 50% of what they charge you for delivering energy to you. Currently, the national trend is many utilities are trying to decrease net metering rates or add surcharges for solar. Also, is your home roof surface large enough (10kw = 600sf of panels) and steep enough (nominal 40%) to accommodate the panels required?

Lightning ER in a Power Outage

Thunder & Lightning and my power goes out for a few minutes or hours on a hot day. So I back up my truck to the house and string enough extension cords to power my fridge to keep my beer cold, run my TV and Modem so I can You Tube the Tornado coming at me, and power my cheap fan to keep Momma cool and collected.

At this point I could describe a method I have done for years (with my generator) although it is both dangerous and stupid unless you know what you are doing. So read on if you are one of these types of person.
******************************************
I flip my panel utility-to-home disconnect to Off. I plug in my generator NEMA 14-50 outlet to my dedicated NEMA 14-50 panel input circuit (with a 60 amp breaker) in my carport. Normally I use this circuit to run my welder or plug in my trailer. I then just monitor my usage. I cannot run more than one 240v (furnace/dryer/stove/water heater) appliance at a time. I used this method back in 2011 during an 11 day ice storm outage.
*******************************************
OR

I could connect my Ford Charge Staion Pro (Free with Purchase) to my Sunrun Home Integration System ($3,895.00 + Tax) + Installation ($1,000+ ?). And if I want to go all out and impress my neighbors I can add a Solar System (10kw $30,000) and Battery (10kw $10,000) to capture unused solar production to net meter back to my utility at about 50% of their retail cost to me.

Seldom would an outage last longer unless you subscribe to various "Web Facts".

A discussion of the investment value of a related solar system is a whole other matter. It would involve where you live, the configuration of your roof, whether you can even use net metering, maintenance and depreciation costs, home resale value, tax credits (26% and decreasing) and interest costs (5% and increasing) if not purchased for cash.

I demand that people call me an Elder, not Elderly, so I can use the RMD (the required minimum distribution is the minimum amount you must withdraw from your IRA each year) to help pay for my Lightning.

I felt bad that I was cashing in to pay for my frivolous Lightning so instead of paying cash (I am financing for a short period instead) I reinvested it in solar after calculating all the options mentioned above to power my recharging. I have no need to power my home in an emergency because I already have a Generac 22kw Propane (+ a 500 gallon tank loaded with $1.50/gal. gas) Whole Home Generator.

My Solar Purchase (25 Year License) was as follows:

Kentucky Touchstone Energy Cooperative Solar Farm One
46 Panels 5 X 3 Feet (Each 460w Q-Cell @21% Efficiency)
Producing 22,000 kWh/Year (My Annual Usage) 530,000 kWh over 25 Years.
My Cost was $21,160.00.

I am currently credited $0.07/kWh on my bill (the current total retail rate is $0.10/kWh) for my solar production. The difference is they do all maintenance, transmission, and upgrades for the next 25 years. If rates stay the same my return over 25 years will be $31,740. But rates will not stay the same. At an inflation rate of 3%/year my return would be $56,000.00. The utility will buy my production from me at increasing market rates for solar. I have a minimal charge for a buy back and my license will continue for the next 25 years on my farm for my son and his son in case I do not live until age 105. In addition, each year I am credited 22 Solar renewable energy certificates (SREC). (I earn one SREC for every megawatt hour (MWh), or 1,000 kilowatt hours (kWhs), of electricity my solar farm system generates). The SREC value fluctuates in the national marketplace but currently, in my state, it is about $500.00/year, and forecasted to greatly increase in coming years.

My upside is that panels at my home (surrounded by trees) would not work. All solar production is utilized to the max, not just what I use. I do nothing except watch my electric bill decrease to a credit over the years and I charge my Lightning basically for free as long as I charge at home.

This solution worked for me and every individual case is different.

My point is run the numbers. Why would you invest in Sunrun or Solar? What problem are you trying to solve? Does it make sense for you? Believe the Numbers - Not the Hype. Do Not get caught up by emotion.

I have a Sunrun experience that may be a bit different than what has been described/discussed heretofore. First, I am no expert on electrical/solar nor am I a shill for Sunrun. That being said, perhaps my experience will be of benefit to some on this forum and potential options for charging our Lightnings.

First, some background. Two years ago I was experiencing roof leaks and asked my next door neighbor (a retired electrical engineer) who he used to fix his roof leak about a year before. He said that the company who installed his solar (Sunrun) fixed his roof for free as part of the install. I explained that I wasn’t interested in buying solar for my circumstances and he explained to me that he wasn’t either. He said he has a Power Purchase Agreement (PPP). The Cliff Notes version is that Sunrun owns the panels and puts up about 20% more than the energy that we will need. They get to “keep” the extra juice. Our electric bill drops 15-20% and is guaranteed. There was no installation charges and for us they performed $3-5,000 of roof repairs at no cost as well. So far it has been a great result for us.

Enter the Lightning. As soon as I learned about the Sunrun partnership with Ford and got them appropriate number to call, I reached out to them. I explained my situation with Sunrun and they took a look at my actual energy use, estimated additional use based upon 10,000 miles a year on the Lightning, and said that I would need 8 additional panels. My bill would go up $68 a month. That works out to be about $.08 per mile if the numbers work out as they projected. But wait, there’s more (I love to say that). The installation cost of installing the Charge Station Pro ($1,650) or the full HIS ($9,595) would be waived if I added the solar they recommended. They came out about a week later and did the site survey. A couple of weeks later they got back to me and confirmed that the HIS would be compatible and that they would also remove my old

Lots of discussion about using your new Lightning to power your home. But this would require an upfront investment (SunRun or Other) of up to $40,000 for an 8-10 KW System. A system of this size would be required for a larger home. If you do not buy it for cash you will also pay interest and have increasing depreciation over the next 25 years. Also add in some maintenance costs each year. It is debatable on how much value the system will add in home resale value. It depends on the market and finding buyers who value solar.

The value of the system can increase depending on whether your utility allows net metering where they "buy-back" unused energy but currently most of those rates are about 50% of what they charge you for delivering energy to you. Currently, the national trend is many utilities are trying to decrease net metering rates or add surcharges for solar. Also, is your home roof surface large enough (10kw = 600sf of panels) and steep enough (nominal 40%) to accommodate the panels required?

Lightning ER in a Power Outage

Thunder & Lightning and my power goes out for a few minutes or hours on a hot day. So I back up my truck to the house and string enough extension cords to power my fridge to keep my beer cold, run my TV and Modem so I can You Tube the Tornado coming at me, and power my cheap fan to keep Momma cool and collected.

At this point I could describe a method I have done for years (with my generator) although it is both dangerous and stupid unless you know what you are doing. So read on if you are one of these types of person.
******************************************
I flip my panel utility-to-home disconnect to Off. I plug in my generator NEMA 14-50 outlet to my dedicated NEMA 14-50 panel input circuit (with a 60 amp breaker) in my carport. Normally I use this circuit to run my welder or plug in my trailer. I then just monitor my usage. I cannot run more than one 240v (furnace/dryer/stove/water heater) appliance at a time. I used this method back in 2011 during an 11 day ice storm outage.
*******************************************
OR

I could connect my Ford Charge Staion Pro (Free with Purchase) to my Sunrun Home Integration System ($3,895.00 + Tax) + Installation ($1,000+ ?). And if I want to go all out and impress my neighbors I can add a Solar System (10kw $30,000) and Battery (10kw $10,000) to capture unused solar production to net meter back to my utility at about 50% of their retail cost to me.

Seldom would an outage last longer unless you subscribe to various "Web Facts".

A discussion of the investment value of a related solar system is a whole other matter. It would involve where you live, the configuration of your roof, whether you can even use net metering, maintenance and depreciation costs, home resale value, tax credits (26% and decreasing) and interest costs (5% and increasing) if not purchased for cash.

I demand that people call me an Elder, not Elderly, so I can use the RMD (the required minimum distribution is the minimum amount you must withdraw from your IRA each year) to help pay for my Lightning.

I felt bad that I was cashing in to pay for my frivolous Lightning so instead of paying cash (I am financing for a short period instead) I reinvested it in solar after calculating all the options mentioned above to power my recharging. I have no need to power my home in an emergency because I already have a Generac 22kw Propane (+ a 500 gallon tank loaded with $1.50/gal. gas) Whole Home Generator.

My Solar Purchase (25 Year License) was as follows:

Kentucky Touchstone Energy Cooperative Solar Farm One
46 Panels 5 X 3 Feet (Each 460w Q-Cell @21% Efficiency)
Producing 22,000 kWh/Year (My Annual Usage) 530,000 kWh over 25 Years.
My Cost was $21,160.00.

I am currently credited $0.07/kWh on my bill (the current total retail rate is $0.10/kWh) for my solar production. The difference is they do all maintenance, transmission, and upgrades for the next 25 years. If rates stay the same my return over 25 years will be $31,740. But rates will not stay the same. At an inflation rate of 3%/year my return would be $56,000.00. The utility will buy my production from me at increasing market rates for solar. I have a minimal charge for a buy back and my license will continue for the next 25 years on my farm for my son and his son in case I do not live until age 105. In addition, each year I am credited 22 Solar renewable energy certificates (SREC). (I earn one SREC for every megawatt hour (MWh), or 1,000 kilowatt hours (kWhs), of electricity my solar farm system generates). The SREC value fluctuates in the national marketplace but currently, in my state, it is about $500.00/year, and forecasted to greatly increase in coming years.

My upside is that panels at my home (surrounded by trees) would not work. All solar production is utilized to the max, not just what I use. I do nothing except watch my electric bill decrease to a credit over the years and I charge my Lightning basically for free as long as I charge at home.

This solution worked for me and every individual case is different.

My point is run the numbers. Why would you invest in Sunrun or Solar? What problem are you trying to solve? Does it make sense for you? Believe the Numbers - Not the Hype. Do Not get caught up by emotion.

I have a Power Purchase Agreement (PPP) with Sunrun that I’ve had for two years. I am saving 15-20% on my electric bill as a result. There was no charge to install 21 panels and they performed substantial roof leak repairs ($3-$4,000) at no charge as part of the deal.

For the Lightning, I will be adding 8 additional panels that will provide me with the additional 2,500 KWh that I need for $68 a month. The charge for installing either the Charge Station Pro ($1,650) or the full HIS ($9,595) is waived. After going through the site inspection and determining that the HIS is compatible, it is a no-brainer for me. I’m going full HIS.

FYI, confirmed that they have not received the charging and inverter units yet but expect them by the end of the month or shortly thereafter. I told them that I didn’t want to commit until the truck was in my name and they said that there is no financial commitment on my part until they come out and do the work, however they can get started on the permits in the meantime so they will be ready to go much sooner than otherwise.

I‘m by no means an expert on any of this and can’t advise what anyone else should do. And yes, what I have described sounds too good to be true and perhaps it is. But all I can say is that my electric bill savings is real and so is my dry roof (so far).

Best of luck to all!

 

[LSP]

I have a Sunrun experience that may be a bit different than what has been described/discussed heretofore. First, I am no expert on electrical/solar nor am I a shill for Sunrun. That being said, perhaps my experience will be of benefit to some on this forum and potential options for charging our Lightnings.

First, some background. Two years ago I was experiencing roof leaks and asked my next door neighbor (a retired electrical engineer) who he used to fix his roof leak about a year before. He said that the company who installed his solar (Sunrun) fixed his roof for free as part of the install. I explained that I wasn’t interested in buying solar for my circumstances and he explained to me that he wasn’t either. He said he has a Power Purchase Agreement (PPP). The Cliff Notes version is that Sunrun owns the panels and puts up about 20% more than the energy that we will need. They get to “keep” the extra juice. Our electric bill drops 15-20% and is guaranteed. There was no installation charges and for us they performed $3-5,000 of roof repairs at no cost as well. So far it has been a great result for us.

Enter the Lightning. As soon as I learned about the Sunrun partnership with Ford and got them appropriate number to call, I reached out to them. I explained my situation with Sunrun and they took a look at my actual energy use, estimated additional use based upon 10,000 miles a year on the Lightning, and said that I would need 8 additional panels. My bill would go up $68 a month. That works out to be about $.08 per mile if the numbers work out as they projected. But wait, there’s more (I love to say that). The installation cost of installing the Charge Station Pro ($1,650) or the full HIS ($9,595) would be waived if I added the solar they recommended. They came out about a week later and did the site survey. A couple of weeks later they got back to me and confirmed that the HIS would be compatible and that they would also remove my old

I have a Power Purchase Agreement (PPP) with Sunrun that I’ve had for two years. I am saving 15-20% on my electric bill as a result. There was no charge to install 21 panels and they performed substantial roof leak repairs ($3-$4,000) at no charge as part of the deal.

For the Lightning, I will be adding 8 additional panels that will provide me with the additional 2,500 KWh that I need for $68 a month. The charge for installing either the Charge Station Pro ($1,650) or the full HIS ($9,595) is waived. After going through the site inspection and determining that the HIS is compatible, it is a no-brainer for me. I’m going full HIS.

FYI, confirmed that they have not received the charging and inverter units yet but expect them by the end of the month or shortly thereafter. I told them that I didn’t want to commit until the truck was in my name and they said that there is no financial commitment on my part until they come out and do the work, however they can get started on the permits in the meantime so they will be ready to go much sooner than otherwise.

I‘m by no means an expert on any of this and can’t advise what anyone else should do. And yes, what I have described sounds too good to be true and perhaps it is. But all I can say is that my electric bill savings is real and so is my dry roof (so far).

Best of luck to all!

Sorry for the two posts. Somehow I thought I lost the first one. But you should get the gist of it between the two.

 

[RTanton]

Sorry for the two posts. Somehow I thought I lost the first one. But you should get the gist of it between the two.

Scott, I am glad to see your post regarding Sunrun. My experience is much like yours...all positive. Working with our Sunrun advisor he first estimately(based upon our mileage) that we would need 13 panels. That was an accurate estimate. We, however, already have 21 micro inverter Sun Power panels installed and have been running ~104% of our electrical needs. We will be replacing a Sonata Plug-in hybrid with the new Lightning. Based upon the last several years with the Sonata it almost exclusively ran full EV(maybe 1-2 gas tank fill ups per year). We went through this data with our Sunrun advisor and scaled back the number of additional panels to 8. We will be installing the new panels and backup power later this month.

 

[LSP]

Scott, I am glad to see your post regarding Sunrun. My experience is much like yours...all positive. Working with our Sunrun advisor he first estimately(based upon our mileage) that we would need 13 panels. That was an accurate estimate. We, however, already have 21 micro inverter Sun Power panels installed and have been running ~104% of our electrical needs. We will be replacing a Sonata Plug-in hybrid with the new Lightning. Based upon the last several years with the Sonata it almost exclusively ran full EV(maybe 1-2 gas tank fill ups per year). We went through this data with our Sunrun advisor and scaled back the number of additional panels to 8. We will be installing the new panels and backup power later this month.

Good to hear Russell. I assume Sunrun will be waiving your installation cost as well. Did they say they have the backup system in stock?

 

[PV2EV]

I have read about two quotes from Sunrun when the Ford install includes solar, and they seemed like a fair priced PV install, which is outstanding given how they are gouging non-solar installs.

Looks like they really are focused on building generation capacity. You might confirm that the HIS will handle all the PV output when the grid is down. Specifically, if the Delta Bi-Directional Inverter is big enough The have 4kW to 10kW).

 

[LSP]

I have read about two quotes from Sunrun when the Ford install includes solar, and they seemed like a fair priced PV install, which is outstanding given how they are gouging non-solar installs.

Looks like they really are focused on building generation capacity. You might confirm that the HIS will handle all the PV output when the grid is down. Specifically, if the Delta Bi-Directional Inverter is big enough The have 4kW to 10kW).

Will do. Thanks!

 

[TTT]

I don't trust all of the sales guys. I was a little bit amused by their math sometimes. One of said based on our most recent electric bill that their proposed system would produce 106 percent of our yearly usage (9.1MW/9.6MW) , but when I looked our usage fluctuates more than that and our most recent year was over 9.8MW. in addition they knew that we were adding the lightning. Our EV went from a Chevy bolt (250w/mile) to a Volvo xc40 EV (340??w/mile). Our xc90t8 gets about 15 to 18 miles of range (summer on 6kw). We go though the same 6kw in the winter, but add in some gas. I am not worried about a bit of overproduction...We will find a way to use it (adding heat pump for HVAC in the next year or two).

We were in a similar situation years ago when we were considering solar - our usage fluctuated a lot, and we were considering getting a BEV, but at that time only had a Volt.

First, we shopped several companies and relied heavily on recommendations from informed local consumers who had both good and bad experiences before choosing an excellent provider.

That company first wanted to install about 16 panels, we asked for more - they upped to about 20, I finally talked them up to 25 which was projected to offset just about 100% of our usage portion of our bill after net metering, but not 100% of usage. Once installed the system actually overproduced slightly as the estimate was slightly conservative.

With net metering in place, and after factoring in the credits and rebates the offset to our bill was due to give us an Return on Investment of 18%, paying off the system in under 6 years assuming electric rates never went up. You can call that the baseline - I prefer to believe that it shifted.

After about 6 months of ownership we pulled the trigger on a second electric vehicle (the Volt ran almost exclusively on electric) and also purchased a Bolt, which we operated for 20,000 miles per year on average.

At this point we risked actually having a positive electric usage bill even though we had been over-producing - so I took a closer look at our overall picture. The entire house was still running on incandescents and our exterior lighting was poorly managed. I went ahead and upgraded the lighting in the home to LED for about the equivalent of 2 months of Gasoline, and in that same cost I added some smart features to control some of the interior and exterior lighting, and took a closer look at actually getting our thermostats programmed correctly .

With those simple steps, and coupled with one child going away to school I guess, we decreased our electric usage enough to operate both of our daily drivers on 100% electric (about 27000 miles per year combined) and still keep at least one zone of the house at 74 degrees at any given time (Happy wife - happy life). These adjustments kept us in the green and we haven't paid for a kilowatt at that house since mid 2016.

In the meantime the system paid itself off either a year ago, or much faster if you want to count the savings of never buying fuel for the second car, and even faster if you want to look at the total cost of ownership on that car but that may be going too far. Still the solar panels are humming along.

In our experience, the only maintenance expense we have approached since turning on the system is cleaning the solar panels, which are about 24" feet above ground level on sections of the roof that cannot be seen from the ground nor easily accessed. I have in the past taken the opportunity to clean the panels from below with a spray on cleaner, and when viewing them with a high power telescope from across the street they do come very clean when doing this, but annecdotally the increased power was negligible. Frankly, we don't do it often and we still come out a bit ahead on the power bill so my wife occasionally cranks the AC down to 71 and still we are in the black. No maintenance costs to speak of then.

You also mention in your first post that the value of the system when you go to sell the house is questionable. We are going through that now. The home is up on MLS and we have had two days of Open House - and there is an informational sheet on the solar system that gets a lot of attention - in Southern California - yes.

The questions speak volumes. Obviously the people touring don't want to gush openly but they are pleased that the solar is owned, and when the savings are discussed it is quickly noted that in our case it more than makes up for the HOA fees and special tax assessments on the property and then some - add that to the comments that we capture on the Ring doorbell as they are leaving the home thinking they are out of earshot of the agent and we have a pretty good idea that the solar is definitely a big deal to a lot of people touring the house.

Every state/community is different. Our new house has a pretty awful solar lease attached to it, but it was a take it or leave it proposition. The builder hosed us on the solar, but we purchased anyway. There is no one answer, other than do your homework, do the math, and optimize your home and habits whether you get the solar or not. Just going to LED lighting can make a big difference (make sure it is dimmable where you need it, learn about color temperature, and spend the money for LEDs with a higher CRI index or you'll hate the look of everything after its installed.)

BTW - in the Los Angeles area I can point you to an excellent installer if you need help - PM me.

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