Lightning range fail

[EVTruckGuy]

I meant the Lightning..I think it is located along the back edge of the trunk.

https://www.f150lightningforum.com/...–-w-12v-battery-power-and-ground-points.7461/

Oh, yes... Looks like progress compared to the Mach E.

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[EVTruckGuy]

It's very similar to jumping a Model 3 except the Tesla has 1 panel instead of 2 to pop. Pretty simple stuff in my opinion.

It's certainly not like solving a Rubix cube, but simple is how I would describe jumping ICE vehicles.

1) Pull mechanical release to pop hood.
2) Attach jumper cables.
3. Done.

On the EV examples you described as simple, it would proceed like this.

1) Crap, the hood won't open because the battery is dead. I'll check the manual.
2) Crap, I have to turn on the Mach E to access the manual. The screen won't turn on because the battery is drained. How do I read the manual?
3) Thankfully I have good cell phone service and can download a pdf version for reference.
4) Successfully find the hidden wires, apply external battery power, and open the frunk.
5) Crap, where the heck is the battery in here? Back to the manual.
6) Remove 2 panels to expose the battery.
7) Attach jumper cables.
8) Done.

It's certainly not complex, but needing to reference an instruction manual just to locate and then find panels to remover before accessing the battery is not simple compared to other vehicles which don't require accessing the manual for instructions.

 

[SmoothJ]

I only made it to page 4 of this thread, but I wonder if the batteries that are used in these trucks just are sitting around too much and by the time they get to us, they need a full charge?

 

[Sklith]

It's certainly not like solving a Rubix cube, but simple is how I would describe jumping ICE vehicles.

1) Pull mechanical release to pop hood.
2) Attach jumper cables.
3. Done.

The critical thing here is that you have access inside the cabin. Does the F-150 Lightning have a physical pull for the frunk?

 

[SmokingtheMeats]

The critical thing here is that you have access inside the cabin. Does the F-150 Lightning have a physical pull for the frunk?

Yes it does

 

[vandy1981]

I only made it to page 4 of this thread, but I wonder if the batteries that are used in these trucks just are sitting around too much and by the time they get to us, they need a full charge?

This is basically my working theory. I think the LVB were discharged to the point of damage while the trucks were waiting for shipment. The truck should top off the LVB from the HVB to keep it from discharging but it may stop doing that if the truck remains idle for too long.

 

[sotek2345]

We drive medium haul trips a lot. Did PA and back in about 24 hours 2 weekends back ~600 miles.

We love the Model 3P, but man are we far off rated range. My safety number is 2 miles/% for winter (so slightly higher in summer). I fully ignore the Tesla estimator as it is wildly inaccurate for us.

But man is there no other car I would prefer to road trip in. On the 800 mile example, we would leave at 100% and get a real 200 miles. Charge for 25 minutes to get to 80%, drive about 180 miles, and repeat this 2x. Then our last stop would be for about 10 minutes to get to destination w/charging.

So let's say we start at 9 am:
-Drive 3 hours
-12:00: Charge for ~30 minutes bathroom, walk dogs, and eat quick lunch
-Drive 2.5 hours
-3:00: Charge for ~25 minutes, clean up car, bathroom, stretch legs, walk dogs.
-Drive 2.5 hours
-6:00: Charge for an hour or so as we sit down at dinner, stretch legs, wall dogs.
-Drive 2.5 hours.
-9:00: Charge for 25 minutes, walk dogs, stretch legs.
-Drive 2 hours
-11:30: Charge for 10 minutes
-12:30 destination.

I may have nis-mathed here, but assuming my car is only gets about 70% efficiency from new (70% of 310 miles when rated new), I see about 13.5 hours of driving and about 2 hours of charging. Of which, 1.5 hours of that charging we would do regardless.

Everyone is different, but the EV for road tripping is a no brainer for us, and I only see 30 minutes added to our time compared to an ICE. When we had an ICE and the Model 3, we would only use ICE for around town and the Model 3 was our choice for longer drives.

Now there are plenty of people who will say, and I am sure do, drive 5-8 hours straight. That is not how we do it; we want to enjoy the drive some. The breaks every 2.5-3 hours typically line up well and we try to make nice stops out of them. We also push it, with most charging stops happening at or below 5% SoC. Even if you are one to drive many hours straight, on 800 miles, I think you are stopping for at least an hour in that time for bathroom, strethch and supplies. If you pack everything incredibly well and have a 400+ mile range ICE I can see 30 minutes of stops.

Regardless, each to their own, but after almost 100k and tens of thousands of road trip miles, I hate taking an ICE compared to EV.

NOW there is one big difference here, the Tesla network. I do not think the F150L will be our choice for rides over 300 miles. With SuperChargers we don't pre plan anymore, they are everywhere and typically we pass 7+ on each 200 mile leg. We did a 300 mile RT run the first night with the F150L and boy is it different feeling, even from one stop. Those stops that are 25-30 min, quickly become 45 minutes. Most stations seems to be off the highway and the handshake for Plug and Charge took 2-3 minutes. So I think we are looking at 50-60 minutes total. Add to that the risk of them being broken, no longer can I trust planning arriving with 0-5% and now I need a buffer of 10-15%. So in the F150L, I think the same trip would be ~4 hours of stops with the efficiency I am averaging (2.0), with much more waiting and hassle. That I don't look forward to.

Of course, each to their own and the road warrior going 6/7/8 hours in a stint and treats each stop as a pit stop is going to lose an hour to hour and half in an EV, but I think the vast majority of people are going to lose 0-30 minutes.

As FYI we are very fast paced people with 2 dogs and no kids (yet). We greatly appreciate efficiency, and the above driving schedule is perfect for us to get somewhere fast and still enjoy a few stops.

We have had a very similar experience since we got our Mach-e. Never want to go back to ICE road tripping if at all possible. The cost savings is also huge!

 

[SmoothJ]

It's certainly not like solving a Rubix cube, but simple is how I would describe jumping ICE vehicles.

1) Pull mechanical release to pop hood.
2) Attach jumper cables.
3. Done.

On the EV examples you described as simple, it would proceed like this.

1) Crap, the hood won't open because the battery is dead. I'll check the manual.
2) Crap, I have to turn on the Mach E to access the manual. The screen won't turn on because the battery is drained. How do I read the manual?
3) Thankfully I have good cell phone service and can download a pdf version for reference.
4) Successfully find the hidden wires, apply external battery power, and open the frunk.
5) Crap, where the heck is the battery in here? Back to the manual.
6) Remove 2 panels to expose the battery.
7) Attach jumper cables.
8) Done.

It's certainly not complex, but needing to reference an instruction manual just to locate and then find panels to remover before accessing the battery is not simple compared to other vehicles which don't require accessing the manual for instructions.

Need to print out a piece of the manual, and laminate it for easy reference later.

 

[p52Ranch]

I have a few questions that I couldn't figure out by scouring the owners manual.
- Does the onboard HV DC to LV DC converter/generator constantly supply power to the battery and 12v equipment like an alternator would in an ICE vehicle while the vehicle is in operation?
- Or, does the 12v battery power the equipment while the vehicle is in operation and then periodically, the 12v battery gets recharged?
- What point (state of charge) does the HBV battery stop re-charging the 12v battery? I suspect the answer to this may be different for a parked vehicle versus one in operation.

We have seen in some of the range test videos (like Out of Spec) that when the HVB state of charge gets too low climate control shuts down.
- Does climate control shut down because the HVB directly supplies power to the air conditioner compressors and cooling fans and the truck is directing all available energy to motive power?
- Or does the climate control shut down because the HVB is no longer charging the 12v battery and the blower fans draw way too much power from the battery to support continued operation? (The 12v battery would need to have enough reserve to operate critical systems.)

 

[Ford Senior Master]

I'd love to have the vin number of this truck. I could check the codes and we would maybe have a better understanding of what happened.

 

[Gimme_my_MME]

I'd love to have the vin number of this truck. I could check the codes and we would maybe have a better understanding of what happened.

I can tell you with absolute certainty that it won't tell you anything at this time

 

[Amps]

They learned from Mach E. LVB jump points are by the right frunk strut
pp. 420-421 paraphrased

1. Locate the jumper cable symbols on the right-hand side (Frunk) luggage compartment cover.
2. Remove the cover. See Installing and Removing the (Frunk) Luggage Compartment Cover (page 338).
3. Remove the red cap. Connect the positive (+) jumper cable to the positive (+) jump point of the Lightning
4. Make the final connection of the negative (-) jumper cable to the negative (-) ground point of the Lightning
   

 

[FlasherZ]

It's certainly not like solving a Rubix cube, but simple is how I would describe jumping ICE vehicles.

1) Pull mechanical release to pop hood.
2) Attach jumper cables.
3. Done.

Ha! You've never had to jump a 1988 Jaguar XJS, or a 2009 Chevy Traverse. First, good luck finding the batteries. They're buried in the trunk on the Jag, and behind the front passenger seat underneath the floor in the Traverse. You'd better have your manual for the Chevy, because unless you've experienced that before, you'll NEVER find it under the carpet that has to be pulled up to do so.

I have a few questions that I couldn't figure out by scouring the owners manual.
- Does the onboard HV DC to LV DC converter/generator constantly supply power to the battery and 12v equipment like an alternator would in an ICE vehicle while the vehicle is in operation?

Yes.

- What point (state of charge) does the HBV battery stop re-charging the 12v battery? I suspect the answer to this may be different for a parked vehicle versus one in operation.

The truck checks the LVB occasionally, and if voltage is too low (LVB drops below 40%) it will begin a top-off cycle. If the LVB voltage goes below a critical threshold (30-35%), it will automatically start the process.

- Does climate control shut down because the HVB directly supplies power to the air conditioner compressors and cooling fans and the truck is directing all available energy to motive power?

HVAC compressors run from the HV power source, and I believe (although can't be sure for certain) that the cabin fans run from 12V.

 

[Ford Senior Master]

I can tell you with absolute certainty that it won't tell you anything at this time

And how can you be so certain?

 

[Yellow Buddy]

This is basically my working theory. I think the LVB were discharged to the point of damage while the trucks were waiting for shipment. The truck should top off the LVB from the HVB to keep it from discharging but it may stop doing that if the truck remains idle for too long.

From the service guide:

Conditions where High Voltage (HV) to Low Voltage (LV) Energy Transfer is not supported

1) When the gear selection is not park (e.g. reverse, neutral, drive, sport etc.) the HV to LV Energy Transfer Feature shall deactivate and/or stop the energy transfer process.

2) When the ignition status is not key-off (e.g. key-on, remote on etc.) the HV to LV Energy Transfer Feature shall deactivate and/or stop the energy transfer process and reset lock out period.

3) When OTA update is in the process with a software update (non-interruptible state), the HV to LV Energy Transfer Feature shall proceed after the Over the Air (OTA) software update is complete.

4) When HV to LV Energy Transfer Feature is in the process of an energy transfer, the OTA update shall stop the energy transfer and proceed with the OTA software update.

5) When an internal error and/or fault is detected (e.g. HV to LV DTC etc.) the HV to LV Energy Transfer Feature shall immediately deactivate and/or stop the energy transfer process.

6) The HV to LV Energy Transfer Feature shall be enabled to provide energy transfer when vehicle is in “customer mode” or “transport mode”. The feature shall be disabled in all other lifecycle modes.

7) The customer shall be notified in the vehicle and/or mobile app of the HV to LV Energy Transfer Status if the HV to LV Energy Transfer Feature occurred because of battery consumption conditions (battery EOL, high KOL, park lamps active, hazard lamps active).

*The 12V battery needs to power modules and close the HV battery contactors upon key-on.

*If the 12V battery is depleted (very low SOC), it will not be capable of performing this function. With no ability to close the
HV battery contactors, the vehicle will not start. This is true even when the HV battery is fully charged.


Even if everything is done appropriately, note the asterisk. Repeated drain of this battery downto 40% where the HVB kicks in to charge the LVB is detrimental to the overall life of the LVB. So very possible everything worked as intended but it was just too many cycles on the LVB.

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