Charge Station Pro and Home Integration System self-install

[PV2EV]

Finally got a detailed response from AEE:

• When the grid is down, can it charge the truck from PV, and also send PV power (inverted) to the house?
  • It cannot charge the vehicle during an outage. The PV will go towards the backup loads, but the EV breaker is located in the Main Service Panel (MSP).
• If it charges from PV, is it DC to DC with no inversion?
  • The PV is sent through the inverter back through the backup loads panel. Any excess will then go back to the MSP, which can then send it back to the charger.
• How many strings and how much PV can it connect (assuming 3 and 10kW)?
  • The Inverter comes in 4 PV sizes (4, 6, 8, and 10K). It is a string inverter, so each string has to have modules facing the same direction.
• Should I assume the Microgrid Integration Device connects to the mains running to a subpanel, and disconnects from the grid when it is down?
  • Yes
• Does it comply with ISO 15118? VERIFYING--I will follow up with confirmation.
• Where does the Ford Charge Station Pro connect in this solution (subpanel, BDI, MID)?
  • See the image below:
  • 

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[Fryballin]

Finally got a detailed response from AEE:

• When the grid is down, can it charge the truck from PV, and also send PV power (inverted) to the house?
  • It cannot charge the vehicle during an outage. The PV will go towards the backup loads, but the EV breaker is located in the Main Service Panel (MSP).
• If it charges from PV, is it DC to DC with no inversion?
  • The PV is sent through the inverter back through the backup loads panel. Any excess will then go back to the MSP, which can then send it back to the charger.

I wonder if the truck has to stay constantly plugged in for the transfer switch to stay switched over to “off grid mode” and if not then can they PV system feed the “critical loads panel” when the truck is disconnected?

If the solar array could continue to supply the critical loads panel without the truck being plugged up, then one could install a 50 amp breaker in the critical loads panel and connect it to a NEMA 14-50 plug to be utilized for charging the truck during the day….

 

[Firestop]

Finally got a detailed response from AEE:

• When the grid is down, can it charge the truck from PV, and also send PV power (inverted) to the house?
  • It cannot charge the vehicle during an outage. The PV will go towards the backup loads, but the EV breaker is located in the Main Service Panel (MSP).
• If it charges from PV, is it DC to DC with no inversion?
  • The PV is sent through the inverter back through the backup loads panel. Any excess will then go back to the MSP, which can then send it back to the charger.
• How many strings and how much PV can it connect (assuming 3 and 10kW)?
  • The Inverter comes in 4 PV sizes (4, 6, 8, and 10K). It is a string inverter, so each string has to have modules facing the same direction.
• Should I assume the Microgrid Integration Device connects to the mains running to a subpanel, and disconnects from the grid when it is down?
  • Yes
• Does it comply with ISO 15118? VERIFYING--I will follow up with confirmation.
• Where does the Ford Charge Station Pro connect in this solution (subpanel, BDI, MID)?
  • See the image below:
  • 

Well done!

 

[PiMatrix]

I wonder if the truck has to stay constantly plugged in for the transfer switch to stay switched over to “off grid mode” and if not then can they PV system feed the “critical loads panel” when the truck is disconnected?

If the solar array could continue to supply the critical loads panel without the truck being plugged up, then one could install a 50 amp breaker in the critical loads panel and connect it to a NEMA 14-50 plug to be utilized for charging the truck during the day….

My configuration is a bit different, 80A FCSP hard wired car charging and backup hooked into Enphase generator input. What I was thinking is that during an extended outage I'd just use the backup Ford charger (or Emporia) and plug it into outlet (connected to backup panel) and charge up the car from solar. During that time of course the truck is not providing backup power but then you likely don't need due to excess solar.

I don't think that the truck needs to be in place for the MID to function and have solar provided to house. The only thing that should happen when you unplug vehicle is no DC from car though FCSP to sunrun inverter, the solar output should continue.

 

[Fryballin]

My configuration is a bit different, 80A FCSP hard wired car charging and backup hooked into Enphase generator input. What I was thinking is that during an extended outage I'd just use the backup Ford charger (or Emporia) and plug it into outlet (connected to backup panel) and charge up the car from solar. During that time of course the truck is not providing backup power but then you likely don't need due to excess solar.

I don't think that the truck needs to be in place for the MID to function and have solar provided to house. The only thing that should happen when you unplug vehicle is no DC from car though FCSP to sunrun inverter, the solar output should continue.

This would sound logical but when you call SunRun and ask they will tell you that the solar array will not continue to provide power to the loads panel unless the truck is plugged in. I guess we will get to see when someone actually gets this system up and running and does some tests….

 

[PiMatrix]

This would sound logical but when you call SunRun and ask they will tell you that the solar array will not continue to provide power to the loads panel unless the truck is plugged in. I guess we will get to see when someone actually gets this system up and running and does some tests….

Ha, well I don't put anything past Sunrun. But why would one install a solar system that doesn't work if your car isn't there? And you can't use solar to charge the car if off grid? I'd guess that Sunrun is incorrect on the first one, but another poster published the detailed operational manuals so the answer is in there.

I'm busy getting the solar part working and making sure we have all the parts. Supply constraints are getting worse with all the new interest in solar credits and electricity costs continue to climb! I think of it as a wireless connection to my own free nuclear fusion generator. Pretty cool that we finally have available nuclear fusion. It used to be said that it aways was and will be the technology of the future to solve mankind's clean energy needs. Now with good batteries and solar we finally have that 24x7. With the drop in price, 50% tax credits (Fed + state), and crazy energy prices the breakeven is actually pretty good. Add in free milage and even better.

 

[pstansel]

You might think that but you would likely be wrong

 

[Firestop]

This would sound logical but when you call SunRun and ask they will tell you that the solar array will not continue to provide power to the loads panel unless the truck is plugged in. I guess we will get to see when someone actually gets this system up and running and does some tests….

Yep, this post/thread summarizes it pretty well……

https://www.f150lightningforum.com/...-system-self-install.11022/page-6#post-253392

 

[PiMatrix]

You might think that but you would likely be wrong

Yes you maybe be right. Thinking about this further, since these are not solar microinverter grid like Enphase they require a grid to sync to. I would bet that if one had the optional LG battery in the Sunrun port then you could disconnect the car and continue on solar. Unique thing on Enphase is that with no battery at all attached the solar panels/IQ8 throttle the output to be consistent with the house load. Draw too much and the house browns out, start a motor and the solar panels give a temporary boost of voltage to help with spiked demand, draw too much and the system shuts down. This feature is what drew me to enphase (e..g the generator input is also additive to the total solar + battery and does not shutdown solar) and I forgot not all systems do that. So I stand corrected!

So another question for Sunrun, is if you have any optional battery size hooked to that battery port whether solar continues. Maybe an easy solution if you drive away to fast charge during extended outage unless they say the battery needs to be as big as your house load then talking an expensive battery, but maybe worth it if the lightning spends alot of time away vs a hour trip to fast charge.

 

[adoublee]

I wonder if the truck has to stay constantly plugged in for the transfer switch to stay switched over to “off grid mode” and if not then can they PV system feed the “critical loads panel” when the truck is disconnected?

If the solar array could continue to supply the critical loads panel without the truck being plugged up, then one could install a 50 amp breaker in the critical loads panel and connect it to a NEMA 14-50 plug to be utilized for charging the truck during the day….

A battery is needed to form a constant voltage source for variable-voltage solar to sync to if a constant grid voltage is not present.

 

[world2steven]

A battery is needed to form a constant voltage source for variable-voltage solar to sync to if a constant grid voltage is not present.

Thanks for this! Probably PV system design 101 - which I haven't had yet. Lots of interesting implications: (these are all questions)

• without a battery my PV system would shut down while it could still be collecting energy
• what inverter spec do I look at to determine the point at which the inverter would shut down
• do PV systems without a battery cycle on and off when clouds pass over

If I put an outlet for the Mobile Power Cord on a branch circuit in my critical loads, why wouldn't I be able to charge with any excess PV power?

 

[FlasherZ]

Thanks for this! Probably PV system design 101 - which I haven't had yet. Lots of interesting implications: (these are all questions)

• without a battery my PV system would shut down while it could still be collecting energy
• what inverter spec do I look at to determine the point at which the inverter would shut down
• do PV systems without a battery cycle on and off when clouds pass over

If I put an outlet for the Mobile Power Cord on a branch circuit in my critical loads, why wouldn't I be able to charge with any excess PV power?

There are two batteries on the HIS system - a "dark start" battery which is required to power all the components of the system so they can safely and successfully transfer your home's load over to the truck's battery, and then there's the truck's battery that provides power to your home.

Grid-tie solar inverters must conform to UL 1741 safety specifications. This means shutting down when grid power disappears. PV systems without a battery do not cycle on or off - they remain off as long as the grid is off. Without a battery present, there's no buffer to handle the transient differences between production supply and demand and the voltage will fluctuate wildly. With a battery storage system (whether the Lightning or off-grid style charge controllers/battery/inverter), the battery can make up the difference if the demand is higher than the PV supply, and the charger (or excess load) can make up the difference if production exceeds demand.

The one exception I deal with frequently is the "emergency power" output on SMA inverters that is supplied only from solar PV only - it shuts down if the inverter can't supply enough power due to cloud cover or night.

With regard to your final question - if there's enough power, you *could* use the mobile connector to charge the truck with excess PV power, but it won't adjust to the loading. The truck will attempt to draw 30A through it constantly, and that's not what you want.

 

[BIC]

Greetings! My first post here. Thinking about ordering a Lightening, primarily for the Home Integration System (HIS). I'm hoping I need nothing more than the Ford Charge Station Pro, $1,310, and the AE Express HIS, $3,895. My current setup includes:

200 A main panel

12.1 kW PV system with AP Systems YC500 microinverters (actual peak power 9.99 kW)

(1) Tesla Powerwall 2 backing up main panel (I can selectively shut off breakers if need be)

(1) 240 V 60 A circuit running to garage for EV (that seemed the max needed a few years ago)

I have been awaiting a second PW2 for 2.5 years now. Tesla hints availability may improve in a few months. I am currently configured for backup only, no time of use shifting necessary or available. The PV & Powerwall system automatically disconnect from the grid in an outage and I can run off solar or battery in a grid outage.

Given my present setup, presumably all I need are the two components listed at the top. Is this correct? Does the HIS play well with the Powerwall?

AE said the 10 kW inverter will be available shortly. Would I want the 4, 6, 8 or 10 kW model? I'm guessing the 10 kW.

Any other thoughts or suggestions? Thanks.

 

[Maquis]

Greetings! My first post here. Thinking about ordering a Lightening, primarily for the Home Integration System (HIS). I'm hoping I need nothing more than the Ford Charge Station Pro, $1,310, and the AE Express HIS, $3,895. My current setup includes:

200 A main panel

12.1 kW PV system with AP Systems YC500 microinverters (actual peak power 9.99 kW)

(1) Tesla Powerwall 2 backing up main panel (I can selectively shut off breakers if need be)

(1) 240 V 60 A circuit running to garage for EV (that seemed the max needed a few years ago)

I have been awaiting a second PW2 for 2.5 years now. Tesla hints availability may improve in a few months. I am currently configured for backup only, no time of use shifting necessary or available. The PV & Powerwall system automatically disconnect from the grid in an outage and I can run off solar or battery in a grid outage.

Given my present setup, presumably all I need are the two components listed at the top. Is this correct? Does the HIS play well with the Powerwall?

AE said the 10 kW inverter will be available shortly. Would I want the 4, 6, 8 or 10 kW model? I'm guessing the 10 kW.

Any other thoughts or suggestions? Thanks.

If you don’t already have an early reservation, you’ll likely get your second PowerWall long before you can get a Lightning. Unless you’re willing to pay an insane dealer markup.

 

[adoublee]

Greetings! My first post here. Thinking about ordering a Lightening, primarily for the Home Integration System (HIS). I'm hoping I need nothing more than the Ford Charge Station Pro, $1,310, and the AE Express HIS, $3,895. My current setup includes:

200 A main panel

12.1 kW PV system with AP Systems YC500 microinverters (actual peak power 9.99 kW)

(1) Tesla Powerwall 2 backing up main panel (I can selectively shut off breakers if need be)

(1) 240 V 60 A circuit running to garage for EV (that seemed the max needed a few years ago)

I have been awaiting a second PW2 for 2.5 years now. Tesla hints availability may improve in a few months. I am currently configured for backup only, no time of use shifting necessary or available. The PV & Powerwall system automatically disconnect from the grid in an outage and I can run off solar or battery in a grid outage.

Given my present setup, presumably all I need are the two components listed at the top. Is this correct? Does the HIS play well with the Powerwall?

AE said the 10 kW inverter will be available shortly. Would I want the 4, 6, 8 or 10 kW model? I'm guessing the 10 kW.

Any other thoughts or suggestions? Thanks.

You aren't attaching solar to the DC inputs of the inverter so that part of the power rating isn't important to you unless you add more solar, or expect you'll be able to backfeed the grid with more than 4kW from the truck if that is ever enabled. And, with NEC interactive source connection rules, a 4kW might be cheaper to properly install than a 10kW. Probably need to delay the Powerwall from taking over and allow it to think truck power is grid power.

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