Tesla to open ~20% of U.S. Superchargers to all EV by end of 2024

[Kev12345]

If you don't like the CCS charging environment then please stick to a Tesla and leave more room for the rest of us.

Are you saying the CCS network is better than Superchargers in your experience?

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[lightspeed]

Anyone recall that GM got bailed out from bankruptcy? Let's not bash on Tesla for taking govt money, they ALL do it.

No kidding.

Plus, Tesla gets the same EV incentives that everyone else gets and they took ONE federal loan that they paid back with interest before it was due.

How much money has our government given to legacy auto and Exxon, etc.. over the years? Hundreds of billions at least.

 

[PungoteagueDave]

So, which is it, "EA mostly does not work" or you have made numerous road trips between Florida and Virgina in your Lighting? Can't be both.

Yeah, it is definitely both. Typical scenario: EA connection fails pylon one, try pylon 2. Runs slow, call EA support (at least they are always there and cheerful). EA support does remote rest, apologizes, says try the first one again. 40 minutes after first attempt, connection succeeds, but only getting 50 kWh. Charge for two hours, move on. That’s just one example. I’ve got many more. Including entire site inop, go instead to slower EV Go 3 miles away, or Blink. It is always possible to find an alternative slower charger, or delay the trip and stay in a nearby hotel with a Tesla destination charger and use that. I’ve done that twice when the EA site I was depending on was down. Do you need dates and times? I’m not talking exceptions - this is the rule with EA - it is s sunrise (pleasant) when plu-and-play actually works and I get over 200 kWh on a low SOC battery. 50% is probably my current hit rate. I’m in Antarctica right now but can dig the charge records up when I return next month.

 

[PungoteagueDave]

I am not saying anything about what network is better than the other. I no longer own a Model S and a Model X, so have not used the Tesla supercharging network in over 3 years.

What I am saying is that I have over 55,000 EV highway miles in my old Audi e-Tron, and now the Porsche Taycan and Ford F-150 Lightning I own. I have never been stranded, nor significantly delayed while on road trips due to Electrify America chargers.

Electrify America is far from perfect, but it is no where near as bad as some of the whiners on this forum claim.

So you are a “whiner” when you state actual personal experience. Using inventive and personal attacks says a lot about you. Name calling is not something I will do here, but wow, you would have it coming.

 

[queuewho]

Did you try the EV Go’s at Salisbury University? They have been pretty good in a pinch, although tough to find the first time. We are in a charging dessert on DelMarVa, and EA does not seem to be in any hurry to solve it.

I am a little nervous about my Rehoboth trip late this summer. I saw an article about all the medium speed (~60kw) charging that looks like it will be a lot of places. Looks like new Volta units coming to the outlets, and basically every Royal Farms has a coming-soon wrench in PlugShare. I hope there's something above 25kw available for a couple charges by the time I head there. Gonna have to stop in Annapolis before the bridge and then I am beholden to opportunity charges where I can find them otherwise. I do plan to ask the person I'm renting the house from but I can't count on that.

 

[PungoteagueDave]

I am a little nervous about my Rehoboth trip late this summer. I saw an article about all the medium speed (~60kw) charging that looks like it will be a lot of places. Looks like new Volta units coming to the outlets, and basically every Royal Farms has a coming-soon wrench in PlugShare. I hope there's something above 25kw available for a couple charges by the time I head there. Gonna have to stop in Annapolis before the bridge and then I am beholden to opportunity charges where I can find them otherwise. I do plan to ask the person I'm renting the house from but I can't count on that.

I would not count on the Royal Farm chargers being up. But if you do a full charge at the Sams in Annapolis, you should be good to your destination. The Tesla chargers at the Royal Farms in Easton are fine but being Superchargers you can’t use them, obviously same for the other Eastern shore superchargers. The Royal Farm DCFC chargers were installed a couple years ago and have been bagged over ever since. I’ve asked at all four and get blank stares from the managers. The outlets are fine, Salisbury University works great but EA is nowhere to be seen in the region.

What I would do in your case is get a TeslaTap mini Tesla adapter and use your J1772 port to charge at the many Tesla wall chargers at the resorts and hotels in Rehoboth and the nearby towns along the ocean. PlugShare has some dated info (for example it shows the Salisbury Univ site under construction but it has been up for over a year), but shows plenty at your destination. You will be fine bridging between Annapolis and those chargers in both directions. The Tesla destination charge fail-safe is my backup strategy that guarantees I can always get past a failed EA location, because there is virtually always one nearby. It is truly baffling why EA can’t get going on DelMarVA at all given the population, beach destinations and Tesla Supercharger ubiquity in that region, not to mention the high number of Wal-Marts there. But they don’t even have one in planning at this point. EA is just a disaster, and this is a perfect example, entirely abandoning/ignoring the Baltimore-Washington region’s weekend getaway beach resorts. Beyond disaster, a disgrace.

 

[vandy1981]

I have never been stranded, nor significantly delayed while on road trips due to Electrify America chargers.

Same here with both my I-Pace and Lightning, including on a 1400 mile
roundtrip journey between TN and WI over Christmas with 0 degree temps in my Lightning. That said, the experience seems to be very route/region specific and it's hard for me to dismiss the issues that others have had with EA as pure FUD.

I'm ambivalent about Kyle Conner's rants. On one hand I think it's good for a credible youtuber to apply heat to the CCS networks. On the other I think that his complaints have been overgeneralized by second parties who are anti-EV or TeZla die hards.

I will say that I'd like to keep the EA network for myself so I'm not exactly mad that people are being steered away from it LOL.

 

[queuewho]

I would not count on the Royal Farm chargers being up. But if you do a full charge at the Sams in Annapolis, you should be good to your destination. The Tesla chargers at the Royal Farms in Easton are fine but being Superchargers you can’t use them, obviously same for the other Eastern shore superchargers. The Royal Farm DCFC chargers were installed a couple years ago and have been bagged over ever since. I’ve asked at all four and get blank stares from the managers. The outlets are fine, Salisbury University works great but EA is nowhere to be seen in the region.

What I would do in your case is get a TeslaTap mini Tesla adapter and use your J1772 port to charge at the many Tesla wall chargers at the resorts and hotels in Rehoboth and the nearby towns along the ocean. PlugShare has some dated info (for example it shows the Salisbury Univ site under construction but it has been up for over a year), but shows plenty at your destination. You will be fine bridging between Annapolis and those chargers in both directions. The Tesla destination charge fail-safe is my backup strategy that guarantees I can always get past a failed EA location, because there is virtually always one nearby. It is truly baffling why EA can’t get going on DelMarVA at all given the population, beach destinations and Tesla Supercharger ubiquity in that region, not to mention the high number of Wal-Marts there. But they don’t even have one in planning at this point. EA is just a disaster, and this is a perfect example, entirely abandoning/ignoring the Baltimore-Washington region’s weekend getaway beach resorts. Beyond disaster, a disgrace.

Yep, I've got this adapter and it worked well at every destination charger I've tried it at. My last trip there was with my model 3, that house had an outlet outside and I didn't even ask the owner that time. Also with the SC north of Rehoboth I wasn't worried at all. This place is a bit nicer and I know the owner lives in the home next door from the listing. So I can't just get away with it unnoticed at this place, so asking first is worth doing.

But the point of this entire discussion is... I wouldn't even be talking about this if half the SC stalls at Rehoboth had CCS. If Tesla comes through in locations like these, where there is just currently no EA or EVgo, they will get all the business from CCS cars.

 

[cvalue13]

I tend to think this will be a marketing boon for Tesla.

Before I give my hypothetical below, remember first the types of relatively minor genitalia-measuring that vehicle Ads are currently based on: “we can tow [X] more pounds than competition,” etc.

Now imagine this hypothetical:

GM vehicle service is so bad, and Ford’s service is so good, that a significant portion of GM owners begin to wish they could get their GMs serviced at Ford.

Ford eventually comes out and says in effect, “we hear you GM owners, and we are here for you: willing to keep your GM vehicle in top shape, with better service, better wait times, and Ford loaners - come on in!”

Ford would of course have to make sure they minimize negative effects on current Ford owners, but otherwise bringing in GM owners to experience a better product would be a marketing boon. ALPHA behavior

So long as Tesla manages to minimize negative effects on current Tesla owners, opening their charge network to “competitor” vehicles is a win. Subsidized win.

Not to mention, unlike Ford and others, Tesla isn’t so narrowly a vehicle manufacturer - they are instead, including this move, an electrification infrastructure business.

Their infra is now large enough, and dialed in well enough, to make moves on the market.

 

[PungoteagueDave]

Can you be anymore of a drama queen??? "Beyond disaster, a disgrace?" It is hard to minimize how ignorant you sound when you spout comments like that.

Evidently you do not understand what Electrify America has shared in regards to its roll out plan.

https://www.electrifyamerica.com/our-plan/

Almost half of the settlement money is going to the State of California. Most of the other money is going to installing chargers to facilitate long distance, interstate travel via EV. Then, they will fill in the rest, as needed. Does that mean you will see an EA charger all over the eastern shore of Maryland, one in Farmington, New Mexico, or Pierre, South Dakota?? Probably not, because that is not what they said they would do. Outside of the $2bn settlement committed for Electrify America, the individual states also received Volkswagen settlement money to use. In Arizona, Utah, Colorado, Kansas, and New Mexico this money is being used to place high speed CCS chargers in more remote parts of their respective states. If you want to complain, speak to the state governments of Maryland, Virginia, and Delaware.

You seem like a semi-intelligent guy, but when you go on these ignorant anti-Electrify America rants you come off as a complete imbecile. Do us a favor and give it rest.

You sir, again show your colors. I, again wIll not stoop to your name-calling, but wow, just wow. I am a subject expert in EA’s strategy, a very familiar with the entire history, how they make decisions, the details of their funding and ownership structure. This is NOT all settlement money. There are many other sources, much pooled from the other, non-VAG sources, and the states have no role whatsoever in directing charger locations. I am not on anti-EA rants - I am not anti-EA at all - I want and need them to succeed. I am just stating actual facts with respect to the actual state of their role-out, reliability and coverage. And you, sir, spout lies and indefensible untruths with respect to same, indicating parity with Tesla’s supercharger system, which is beyond absurd. You are the one on here claiming that all is well, pay no attention to the reality of the EA system which ANY regular user is patently unreliable, is NOT currently functional in cold locations, does NOT report real-time status of its chargers, so cannot be relied on to be operational without third party confirmation (unlike Tesla’s, which are real time all the time), and has huge gaps in coverage with no pla to fix many of them. Saying it is a disgrace that the entire region between DC and its prime seashore vacation/weekend location has no existing coverage nor any in planning is a disgrace, when Tesla has many Superchargers along the exact same corridor at its expense does NOT make me a “drama queen”, “ignorant” nor an “imbecile” and you saying so entirely impeaches your value as a participant on these forums. Get a life.

 

[Kev12345]

It would be nice if tesla made the ccs magic dock stalls a different color. I hope there’s some obvious visual cue to differentiate the two types.

 

[Maquis]

I’ve yet to add any users to my “ignore” list, but a couple are getting close!

 

[cvalue13]

Spent some time learning on this today, and a few key takeaways:

Most of the >$7B in funding is directed towards the states, through the NEVI program, which to receive money to dole out at the state level to builds within the state have to meet several criteria:

• Gaps of no more than 50 miles between chargers.
• Chargers within a mile of the interstate.
• At least four with 150 kW simultaneous or higher-rate chargers, with CCS connectors.
• Ability to simultaneously charge four vehicles at that rate or greater.
• Exceptions are available for any of these on a case-by-case basis (unavailability of electricity, etc.), but funding can be used to prepare a site for stations by adding power-generating capability, etc

Accordingly, this suggests several things regarding Tesla’s participation in these programs as relates to the news from the White House:

• for Tesla to receive funding for a given installation, the subject supercharge station will need:

• at least 4 CCS stalls
• each with at least 150kw simul.
• along major state highways

Where states have charging deserts >50mi between other providers’ stalls, but Tesla stations are within in the gaps, those gap-filling supercharger stations will be of particular focus to state negotiations with Tesla to provide 4X stalls to receive funds.

Pausing here to remember we’re talking about 3,500 such CCS supercharger stalls by end of 2024, it suggests 3,500/4 = 875 such stations

Those 875 CCS capable supercharger stations *should* be disproportionately located along >50mi gaps in current infra of other providers’ offerings. That could mean existing stations being retrofitted, or newly planned supercharger stations within the gaps.

Regarding the gap-filling, this article predates the White House announcement and digs into some public Arizona DOT meeting notes and NEVI planning docs to deduce that indeed existing Tesla stations play a critical role in Arizona qualifying for its share of funds.

These retrofitted stations and new stations will likely receive 4X

This article today in Forbes is thorough and generally argues the whole regulatory framework is “misguided,” and will misalign incentives to properly deploy the chargers. While the article’s thrust focuses on its view of issues with Tesla’s participation, it along the way also highlights some likely reasons incentivizing Tesla’s participation including:

•Tesla would presumably find it hard to compete with billions of subsidy going to the smaller CCS system

• a passing (but indirect and underemphasized) mention that Musk has previously said Tesla will participate in opening its network for altruistic reasons “"We are trying as best as possible to do the right thing for the advancement of electrification, even if that diminishes our competitive advantage"

At the end of the day, on my read the impact on Tesla drivers would seem to be minimal. By end of 2024 these CCS enabled supercharger stalls will represent only 10% of Teslas supercharger stalls. Those stalls should be disproportionately located in current charge deserts along major highways, which means that few of the regular charging haunts of current Tesla drivers will be effected. And, these few, somewhat ‘remote,’ stalls will surely be magicdock configurations, meaning they’ll still be available to current Tesla users. And if these few, remote, CCS enabled stalls are in nonetheless located in a desirable location for Tesla drivers, the “crowds” of Teslas drivers may somewhat deter CCS vehicles from over-prioritizing those stations. In all, the impact on Tesla drivers would seem to be minimal.

Meanwhile, the correlate benefits to overall charge infrastructure may be material. By the subsidies disproportionately favoring the build out of new locations within >50mi gaps in major highway thoroughfares, it should hopefully begin to widen the bottleneck of BEV adoption by those who have (justifiable) range anxiety use cases. That reduction in range anxiety means uptake of BEVs not only for those who will regularly use the infra, but even just for those for whom the idea of range anxiety causes unnecessary friction in their buying choices. (Some buyers may include range anxiety among their reasons to not go BEV, despite the reality being their use case will rarely ever be impacted by a lack of infra.)
Setting aside broader skepticism of “misguided” regulatory incentives at the margins, the theory of the incentives could be meaningful.

Comparing the relatively low practical negative impact on current Tesla driver’s against the possibly meaningful improvement to not just charge infra generally but also BEV uptake generally, I find it hard to hand-wring too much about Tesla’s plan to open up a small fraction of its supercharger stalls to CCS charging.

Plus, as it relates to the CyberTruck, by the end of 2024 I personally will probably not have taken delivery and still be a CCS charger in my Lightning. In which case, if anything, my personal takeaway is that this “news” is a nothingburger. Only 10% of stalls, located in only 875 stations, disproportionally concentrated out in currently desolate stretches on major highways, doesn’t do much of anything for me or others like me (who largely charge at home, and rarely road trip).

The converse effect seems true for Tesla as a business: these few CCS enabled stations will disproportionately initiate the subset of drivers who regularly drive long distances, and should probably be trading in for a Tesla anytime over the next few years.

 

[luebri]

Trust the source as you see fit.

Kyle Conner from Out of Spec on Youtube passed along a Reddit link reporting an installed Magic Dock in NY.



https://www.reddit.com/user/Fxsx24?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf

 

[F150ROD]

Trust the source as you see fit.

Kyle Conner from Out of Spec on Youtube passed along a Reddit link reporting an installed Magic Dock in NY.



https://www.reddit.com/user/Fxsx24?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf

I was just getting ready to post this. These are exciting times. But I can see where everyone else said there would be issues for the F150 and that Charger. Almost like Tesla said….. “sure we will open our network, give us the cash” and then do nothing about the length in order to discourage non Teslas from charging there lol

RIP EA

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