Anyone replace the CCS for J1772 cable on the Charge Station Pro?

[Maquis]

A lot of ideas instead of the simplest solution (short of selling it and buying a new EVSE): you can buy the J1772 head. You don't have to buy an entire cable to swap the connector.

An electrician might drop in and explain this better (or correct me) but you might encounter some mismatching issues if you swap EVSEs. Right now, your wiring was sized for 100A continuous (3 AWG) but the lugs on a 60A EVSE won't accept 3 AWG wiring (the diameter is too large), you can't terminate the wires to an outlet for 60A (has to be direct wired), and a 14-50 outlet wouldn't accept 3 AWG wiring anyway (same reason the direct wired EVSE won't accept them--they aren't expected to be connected to wiring that thick). If you look at your 100A breaker you'll probably find that the lugs are larger than a 60A breaker...unless you sized your wire and breaker for 60A, which is a different issue altogether (since the FCSP can be set up to 80A everything in the circuit should be sized for that capacity even if the installer turned the settings down).

So you might find you have to buy an 80A EVSE to replace the FCSP. Or none of this matters and the circuit is only sized for 60A in which case the FCSP should be sold because you're never going to be able to use it's full capacity.

He already stated that his current installation is a 60A circuit, so none of that is relevant.

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[ExCivilian]

He already stated that his current installation is a 60A circuit, so none of that is relevant.

How do you figure that? The person said it was on a 60A breaker, not circuit, which a 14-50 can’t be wired up to as many are suggesting. A 14-50 requires a 50A breaker with a maximum charge rate of 40A. Nothing was started regarding the size of the wire, but a 60A breaker would call for 4 awg wire size that would have all of the same problems as 3awg I described so not sure how you conclude it’s irrelevant.

and of course the most relevant information, which is still accurate regardless, is to swap the head of the FCSP…

 

[Amps]

the most relevant information, which is still accurate regardless, is to swap the head of the FCSP…

My FCSP is still in the box, so I haven't examined the CCS1 connector. Is it serviceable, not bonded to the cable? If so, is the cable with the extra H.I.S. conductors a size that you could find a J1772 to accept the cable?

 

[MTBAZ]

For the inconvenience of flipping the DC cover every time I charge I have thought about making this change. It hasn't bothered me enough... yet. If/when I do I'll be looking for a new cord from the charger. Keeping the CCS cable if I add home charging or want to sell later. Buying a full cord will keep the J1772 head sealed from the factory and in my opinion safer and more reliable over long time use. I'll need to be sure to get a cable that is rated for my charging limits.

 

[ExCivilian]

My FCSP is still in the box, so I haven't examined the CCS1 connector. Is it serviceable, not bonded to the cable? If so, is the cable with the extra H.I.S. conductors a size that you could find a J1772 to accept the cable?

Mine is a couple hundred miles away at a second home so I can’t look at it and I haven’t really thought about the DC flap and connector size until this thread so haven’t paid attention to the head.

The heads I used for my OpenEVSE projects are serviceable though so presumably one could cut the cable if nothing else and attach a new head to the end.

The wire size would be a consideration but not necessarily a deal breaker. I have older cables for lower rated OpenEVSEs I built many years ago with thicker insulation making the cable’s outside diameter thicker than my FCSP’s.

 

[ivan256]

How do you figure that? The person said it was on a 60A breaker, not circuit, which a 14-50 can’t be wired up to as many are suggesting. A 14-50 requires a 50A breaker with a maximum charge rate of 40A. Nothing was started regarding the size of the wire, but a 60A breaker would call for 4 awg wire size that would have all of the same problems as 3awg I described so not sure how you conclude it’s irrelevant.

and of course the most relevant information, which is still accurate regardless, is to swap the head of the FCSP…

You can absolutely attach a 14-50 outlet to the end of a run from a 60/80/100A breaker. You just need to add a 50A breaker before the outlet to protect the outlet, and the wire from the FCSP to the outlet. You could go 80A Breaker -> Wires -> FCSP -> Wires -> 50A Breaker -> Wires -> 14-50 outlet.

 

[Maquis]

You can absolutely attach a 14-50 outlet to the end of a run from a 60/80/100A breaker. You just need to add a 50A breaker before the outlet to protect the outlet, and the wire from the FCSP to the outlet. You could go 80A Breaker -> Wires -> FCSP -> Wires -> 50A Breaker -> Wires -> 14-50 outlet.

That would be a violation of 625.40 which requires each EVSE to be on an individual branch circuit with no other loads or outlets.
If you put both breakers in one small panel, and ran from there to each, it would comply.

 

[ivan256]

That would be a violation of 625.40 which requires each EVSE to be on an individual branch circuit with no other loads or outlets.
If you put both breakers in one small panel, and ran from there to each, it would comply.

For a hard wired charger, with an integral box and no outlet it's unclear how that would apply. But you're probably right. It would be enforced that way....

It's still not the issue that ExCivilian was making it out to be though. It just means that you'd need to put a two breaker box as a subpanel before the FCSP and the outlet, rather than a single breaker box as a subpanel between the FCSP and the outlet.

 

[Maquis]

For a hard wired charger, with an integral box and no outlet it's unclear how that would apply. But you're probably right. It would be enforced that way....

It's still not the issue that ExCivilian was making it out to be though. It just means that you'd need to put a two breaker box as a subpanel before the FCSP and the outlet, rather than a single breaker box as a subpanel between the FCSP and the outlet.

An outlet does not necessarily mean receptacle.

NEC definition:

Outlet: A point on the wiring system at which current is taken to supply utilization equipment.

There is an outlet wherever any piece of equipment is powered, even if hard-wired. Even some seasoned electricians get this wrong.

 

[ExCivilian]

It's still not the issue that ExCivilian was making it out to be though.

I didn't claim there was any safety or code issues involved and merely warned this person that once they get the pieces apart they may find physical incompatibilities.

What issue do you think I was making this out to be other than that valid concern that people would need to consider when ordering new parts?

You can absolutely attach a 14-50 outlet to the end of a run from a 60/80/100A breaker.

If someone is just buying a 14-50 outlet from Home Depot or Amazon they're unlikely to find one that accepts 3 AWG wire--I've never see one--and have difficultly even getting 4 AWG in there. The FCSP itself should be rated for at least 3 AWG and that barely fits...let alone if someone needed to go larger for a longer run.

The EVSE has to be chosen according to the wire size at this point (because it'll likely be too expensive to run new wire) so that has implications on buying a 60A charger vs. a 32A one, for example. The 32A won't have lugs sized for the 60A wiring and the 60A can't be plugged into a 140-50 outlet (at least in CA).

Anyway, the bottom line is there are a group of people in this thread just advising this person without any knowledge of what is or isn't involved in the electrical circuit but it's not as simple as just buying whatever everyone suggests online and installing it without consideration.

The circuit is a system where all of the components are sized appropriately to the load and each other (and not usually oversized due to costs). I never said there were insurmountable issues and only pointed out that there are considerations depending on how the circuit was put together--considerations that can create headaches for someone trying to DIY this project.

Of course, my very first line was that they can avoid all of this mess by simply changing out the head of the EVSE, which is the actual problem and no other problem presented. So I'd like to know why you think:

"You could go 80A Breaker -> Wires -> FCSP -> Wires -> 50A Breaker -> Wires -> 14-50 outlet."

is a better solution than simply changing the head of the EVSE?

 

[ivan256]

So I'd like to know why you think:

(adding a 50 amp outlet)

is a better solution than simply changing the head of the EVSE?

Flexibility? Cost? Maintaining the full current rating of the FCSP for their Lightning? Retaining the warranty and certifications of the equipment? Using standard parts and practices that are readily available and recognized?

 

[Forestsoul]

I have 6 AWG NMD90 Copper (rated for 65A). The run is about 40 ft.

The more I look into it, the more I worry that any swapping of the head/connector or the cord may not be so readily acceptable by my insurance, should there be a fire.

I may just sell the FCSP and replace with another 48A charger. I cannot charge with more than that on my current panel and don't anticipate upgrading my service at the moment.

This will depend on my next EV purchase and if I get a Tesla or not.

I like the suggestions of installing a 14-50 using the same wire, with a box that would allow using one or the other at a time. I will talk to my electrician about this option to see what could be possible.

 

[ExCivilian]

I like the suggestions of installing a 14-50 using the same wire, with a box that would allow using one or the other at a time.

Max you can charge on a 14-50 connector would be 40A (with 50A breaker). If you want to buy and use a 48A EVSE you'd need to hardwire it. 14-50 sockets aren't rated for repeated plugging/unplugging although people do it. Eventually the connectors will wear and loosen creating a fire hazard.

You have to use 60C column for romex, which caps your conductor at 55A instead of 65A...but there's no 55A breaker so you can use the next size up (60A).

Insurance concerns aside, there's nothing esoteric about changing out the J1772 head (J1772 is the standard). I've built several EVSEs. Aftermarket heads are easily swappable although Ford's mobile charger has a sealed one and the FCSP likely does, too. But if you're worried about liability then sell the FSCP and buy a much smaller EVSE. You can see one of my older ones in the background--it's smaller than a shoebox compared to the torso sized FCSP.

 

[Maquis]

I have 6 AWG NMD90 Copper (rated for 65A). The run is about 40 ft.

The more I look into it, the more I worry that any swapping of the head/connector or the cord may not be so readily acceptable by my insurance, should there be a fire.

I may just sell the FCSP and replace with another 48A charger. I cannot charge with more than that on my current panel and don't anticipate upgrading my service at the moment.

This will depend on my next EV purchase and if I get a Tesla or not.

I like the suggestions of installing a 14-50 using the same wire, with a box that would allow using one or the other at a time. I will talk to my electrician about this option to see what could be possible.

Just a note for fellow non-Canadians, NMD90 is only used and available in Canada. It cannot be used in the U.S.

 

[bobrosco]

I've searched for an answer to this on and off since I've had my truck (August '22). Finally found a sort of answer: 80A J1772 cable.

I can't speak to the quality of the cable or connector, but at $390 before shipping, it doesn't make much sense fiscally. Like others have said, it's probably a better idea to replace the charger with a different option if it's worth it to you.

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