Apparent range difference from DC fast charging vs charging with mobile power cord?

[s_c]

I'm limited to a 120v wall outlet for home charging

The first 500 miles of ownership I've been relying on DC fast charging to charge from 5-50% up to 90% once or twice a week. Now I wasn't hypermiling, but I was surprised at how low my range would read at 90%. Usually not much more than 160 miles.

However, my first charge to 90% with the 120v wall outlet has me back up over 200 mile range.

Does this make any sense? Could it just be because the garage is a little warmer?

Sponsored

 

[mr.Magoo]

The range from the GoM is influenced by every factor imaginable and a dash of uncertainty on top of it all.
Temps make a pretty big difference, batteries don't like the cold, so the last two weeks warmer weather will definitely give you better range compared to earlier this year.

 

[Amps]

Pay attention to mi/kWh. Variations in the Range Guesser are normal and meaningless.
“YRMV” morphs to Your Range Will Vary.

 

[RickLightning]

"Apparent range difference from DC fast charging vs charging with mobile power cord?"


No.

There is no difference, zero, in the range that your truck has from ANY charging method. A kilowatt is a kilowatt.

The GOM predicts range. Type of charge is not a factor in the prediction.

 

[Zprime29]

I've used a DCFC twice to play catch up as I am also using level 1 at home right now. Zero difference in the % of battery used in my commute between the two. Weather and speed have been my only factors in efficiency so far. I largely ignore the range and just keep an eye on % battery remaining and my m/kWh.

 

[s_c]

No.

There is no difference, zero, in the range that your truck has from ANY charging method. A kilowatt is a kilowatt.

The GOM predicts range. Type of charge is not a factor in the prediction.

This is 100% logical.

I had to ask because it was just so weird the first time I've seen the range show over 200 miles at 90% since I picked the truck up from the dealer is the first time I charged with 120v, and that's over 700 miles of driving.

However, it did warm up from ~36 to ~50F, which also would improve range

It's tough to go by m/kWh for me as my most common drive is 1.9 miles which may be uphill or downhill, and the rest are between 3 and 14 miles.

My last trips are...

5.3 miles at 6.3 mi/kWh
3 miles at 2.4 mi/kWh
3.7 miles at 4.7 mi/kWh
1.9 miles at 2.9 mi/kWh
0.2 miles at -0.1 mi/kWh
14 miles at 3.0 mi/kWh
0.2 miles at 1.7 mi/kWh
1.9 miles at 2.3 mi/kWh
3.9 miles at 78.3 mi/kWh
3.6 miles at -0.1 mi/kWh
1.1 miles at 1.4 mi/kWh
13.4 miles at 2.2 mi/kWh
2.2 miles at 6.2 mi/kWh

Granted, now that I have access to a wall charger, range isn't such an issue as the short trips aren't leaving me low at various times through the week

 

[RickLightning]

This is 100% logical.

I had to ask because it was just so weird the first time I've seen the range show over 200 miles at 90% since I picked the truck up from the dealer is the first time I charged with 120v, and that's over 700 miles of driving.

However, it did warm up from ~36 to ~50F, which also would improve range

It's tough to go by m/kWh for me as my most common drive is 1.9 miles which may be uphill or downhill, and the rest are between 3 and 14 miles.

My last trips are...

5.3 miles at 6.3 mi/kWh
3 miles at 2.4 mi/kWh
3.7 miles at 4.7 mi/kWh
1.9 miles at 2.9 mi/kWh
0.2 miles at -0.1 mi/kWh
14 miles at 3.0 mi/kWh
0.2 miles at 1.7 mi/kWh
1.9 miles at 2.3 mi/kWh
3.9 miles at 78.3 mi/kWh
3.6 miles at -0.1 mi/kWh
1.1 miles at 1.4 mi/kWh
13.4 miles at 2.2 mi/kWh
2.2 miles at 6.2 mi/kWh

Granted, now that I have access to a wall charger, range isn't such an issue as the short trips aren't leaving me low at various times through the week

So let's make sure you understand.

That data contains FALSE data. Bad data. Incorrect data. For example, you didn't drive 3.9 miles and get 78.3 miles per kilowatt. Didn't happen.

Ford's EV data has problems. Sometimes the miles don't reset. Sometimes the EV data resets.

The 14 miles at 3.0 miles per kilowatt is right on.

The 6.X miles per kilowatt are likely either downhill, or stop and go the whole way.

The 0.2 miles is simply useless data.

Instead of looking at individual trips, reset the trip odometer and look at that over time, but note it can have issues too.

 

[Zprime29]

Ya, I find the current trip meter isn't really accurate until about 10 miles are logged. Since my commute is almost 28 miles each way, it shows between 2.8 and 3.0 by the time I'm parked. I use between 7 and 8% battery, for the ER that's around 10 kWh for 28 miles. My Trip 1 with 1200miles shows an average of 2.8, that checks out

 

[Henry Ford]

I swear, if Ford put the numerical %SOC on the default gauge cluster it would ease range anxiety and confusion. I've been using the Calm Screen because it has all the information you need, including numeric SOC. SOC is a real thing, predicted range is black magic unicorn farts.

 

[mb0220]

I swear, if Ford put the numerical %SOC on the default gauge cluster it would ease range anxiety and confusion. I've been using the Calm Screen because it has all the information you need, including numeric SOC. SOC is a real thing, predicted range is black magic unicorn farts.

I agree with this. Also, Volvo seems to have a better approach in the EV XC40. The "range prediction" is not located in the gauge cluster, but rather in the Range Assistant app in the infotainment system. So the info is available, but not right in your face. And even in there it gives you a number that only updates in increments of 10 miles, along with max and min so it communicates the notion of this being an estimate. (I should note that it does give you a more precise number if you have less than 20% SoC.) To me, this is the "right" way to think about EV range.

 

[Henry Ford]

I agree with this. Also, Volvo seems to have a better approach in the EV XC40. The "range prediction" is not located in the gauge cluster, but rather in the Range Assistant app in the infotainment system. So the info is available, but not right in your face. And even in there it gives you a number that only updates in increments of 10 miles, along with max and min so it communicates the notion of this being an estimate. (I should note that it does give you a more precise number if you have less than 20% SoC.) To me, this is the "right" way to think about EV range.

You've convinced me in one paragraph that is a better way of doing this.

I know Ford has a fleet of competitor's vehicles with which they benchmark; how is it possible the person who designed the Ford system saw they way others do it and said, "no, a single number derived from an opaque formula is the way to go"?

 

[ScubaSteve_TheReal]

So let's make sure you understand.

That data contains FALSE data. Bad data. Incorrect data. For example, you didn't drive 3.9 miles and get 78.3 miles per kilowatt. Didn't happen.

Ford's EV data has problems. Sometimes the miles don't reset. Sometimes the EV data resets.

The 14 miles at 3.0 miles per kilowatt is right on.

The 6.X miles per kilowatt are likely either downhill, or stop and go the whole way.

The 0.2 miles is simply useless data.

Instead of looking at individual trips, reset the trip odometer and look at that over time, but note it can have issues too.

Good point, I need to try this on one of my trip meters, I'm paying too much attention to the app Ford Pass numbers and they are needing some glitches taken care of. BTW, I see you have the Juicebox 48amp, are you happy with it, I'm only familiar with the Ford mobile charger still at this point, I may or may not install the 80amp ford unit that came with the truck....

 

[ScubaSteve_TheReal]

I swear, if Ford put the numerical %SOC on the default gauge cluster it would ease range anxiety and confusion. I've been using the Calm Screen because it has all the information you need, including numeric SOC. SOC is a real thing, predicted range is black magic unicorn farts.

Same here, I never understood the term range anxiety lol, until I bought my first EV. The calm screen seems to have calmed my worries on range. FORD, please allow us to choose to display only the battery percentage as an option and for us to choose the metrics to see.

 

[RickLightning]

Good point, I need to try this on one of my trip meters, I'm paying too much attention to the app Ford Pass numbers and they are needing some glitches taken care of. BTW, I see you have the Juicebox 48amp, are you happy with it, I'm only familiar with the Ford mobile charger still at this point, I may or may not install the 80amp ford unit that came with the truck....

When I say that the data is bad, that's both the app and the trip odometers. Sometimes you'll find This Trip doesn't reset the mileage, so the data is bad. I had both Trip 1, and Trip 2, reset the EV data to the This Trip data, so my lifetime (since purchase) Trip 2 efficiency dropped from 3.0 (Mach-E) to 2.5...

I like the JuiceBox 48amp. There are some significant advantages over any Ford-branded charger (unless you're powering your house):

- support - any brand likely has better support
- Easy to adjust amps in app in seconds
- More data
- Ability to use two identical model JuiceBox chargers on the same circuit, with load sharing.
- Some utility companies provide a rebate (or a discount if they sell them) for buying specific brands/models. I got $500.
- Intelligence. I can set my off-peak hours in the JB and the vehicle, and know that if I remote start, set a departure time, or can't complete a charge (see below), the JB will prevent electricity usage without me overriding it.

All the Ford EVs will charge outside your specified hours, or use electricity outside these hours, under the following conditions (if plugged in):

- Remote start
- Departure time
- The vehicle determines that in your charging window, it can't reach the target. Therefore, it starts charging immediately, even if you have set charging hours. You can easily see this by plugging in the Ford Mobile Charger, and using the 120v pigtail, with your set hours. The only way to stop this behavior is to unplug, use an outlet timer (with the 120v pigtail), or lower the charging threshold to one that the vehicle then thinks it can hit. By having an intelligent EVSE, you can prevent this behavior. I can easily see an 8 hour charge period, on a 131kW battery run down to 10% on a trip, and charging to 90% (thereby needing 131 x .80 = 104.8kWh), not being able to charge in 8 hours with a 48amp charger, and some people have smaller charging windows.

 

[mb0220]

You've convinced me in one paragraph that is a better way of doing this.

I know Ford has a fleet of competitor's vehicles with which they benchmark; how is it possible the person who designed the Ford system saw they way others do it and said, "no, a single number derived from an opaque formula is the way to go"?

I think they're just going with the status quo. In their ICE vehicles they do the same thing - there is a DTE number, and it is an exact number that is really just an educated guess as to how far you can travel with the remaining fuel in your tank. But nobody really cares about how accurate it is because gas stations are everywhere.
Maybe they think it looks less credible if it looks too much like an estimate. But to me you lose more credibility by telling me an exact number that is consistently inaccurate.

Sponsored