UPDATE: Failed 12v Battery....

[Zprime29]

I am also unsure if preconditioning(departure times) will work correctly with Fordpass not responsive. Maybe it's coincidence, but it seems like whenever Fordpass stops working my precondition stops working as well.

Precisely, the app is a window not a controller.

My preconditioning has been failing more and more recently. I have it set to cool the truck before I leave work. I find I get better efficiency doing that vs running max A/C all the way home. It's only worked about 50% of the time the past 2 weeks.

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[MRButtler]

Lately Ford Pass status updates have been hit or miss "pull down" to refresh doesn't always accomplish the goal, but if I send a LOCK or UNLOCK request, then a refresh it tends to work better but not 100% reliable. This might have started after the last APP update around August 8th.

This has always been the case for me.

 

[greenne]

This has always been the case for me.

It was always clumsy for me...never worked on first try. Usually after 2, 3, or 4 times refreshing it would update.(Easier to update if charging).

Lately it would go down for hours/days at a time and wouldn't update even when plugged in.

 

[Adventureboy]

Haven’t had the 12 volt battery problem yet. (6/22 build mannequin). Truck sometimes goes several days on charger but not driven.

I wonder what Group size it is, and whether a larger AGM would fit. Seems to me that in winter, usually 0 to 20 degrees for several weeks at a time, a lithium battery could not handle the cold. The truck does not get garaged. I presume that the big battery has its own HVAC system but not the 12 volt battery.

The problem would be that the truck measures amp hours in/out of the battery rather than just voltage to measure its depletion. A larger battery means more amp hours but we’d need to figure out how to tell the Battery Management System (BMS) that we installed a bigger battery so it would use the additional capacity rather than just shut everything down at the same amp hour depletion number. Maybe a Forescan expert might have a way to do this.

 

[Maxx]

This whole thing is making me prime target for battery failure. My drives are short distance and infrequent. Truck sites for 4 days straight regularly and I charge once a week at most. My use of APP has gone down significantly due to loss of functionality and lack of reliability so if any of you know how I can put the truck to deep sleep so it does not lose as much power, please do share.

I thought Lightning was already great in that regard already. I am surprised to hear it is a problem.

Chronically discharged lead-acid batteries age significantly faster when SOC is below 80%. AGM batteries are more resistant to chronic discharges but it is ridiculous to ask a lead-acid AGM to tolerate this kind of abuse.

What is Lead Acid AGM? I thought it was either Lead Acid, or AGM. If I use a slow charger on the battery, should I use AGM mode? or normal Lead Acid mode?

 

[Adventureboy]

This whole thing is making me prime target for battery failure. My drives are short distance and infrequent. Truck sites for 4 days straight regularly and I charge once a week at most. My use of APP has gone down significantly due to loss of functionality and lack of reliability so if any of you know how I can put the truck to deep sleep so it does not lose as much power, please do share.

I thought Lightning was already great in that regard already. I am surprised to hear it is a problem.






What is Lead Acid AGM? I thought it was either Lead Acid, or AGM. If I use a slow charger on the battery, should I use AGM mode? or normal Lead Acid mode?

AGM is lead-acid chemistry with a glass mat between the plates to reduce lead sulfate buildup on the plates which happens as the battery discharges. You should use AGM mode when charging it.
The old-style battery is Flooded Lead-Acid (without the glass mat) and they are charged at a slightly higher voltage to dissipate the lead sulfate buildup. The higher voltage is not good for AGM since it can dry out the glass mats and burn them.

 

[greenne]

This whole thing is making me prime target for battery failure. My drives are short distance and infrequent. Truck sites for 4 days straight regularly and I charge once a week at most. My use of APP has gone down significantly due to loss of functionality and lack of reliability so if any of you know how I can put the truck to deep sleep so it does not lose as much power, please do share.

In my case the truck went into deep sleep(repeatedly) for me with no action needed on my part.

IDK, If it were me I'd probably keep it like this. The repeated deep sleep was one of the things that helped me figure out my 12v battery was failing. Without that indicator you might not know until it completely dies and the truck is not drivable.

 

[Rockyl32]

Is there a way to monitor the state of charge on the small battery?

 

[Maquis]

This whole thing is making me prime target for battery failure. My drives are short distance and infrequent. Truck sites for 4 days straight regularly and I charge once a week at most. My use of APP has gone down significantly due to loss of functionality and lack of reliability so if any of you know how I can put the truck to deep sleep so it does not lose as much power, please do share.

I thought Lightning was already great in that regard already. I am surprised to hear it is a problem.

Mine gets used less often and sits more than yours. 2700 miles since January. I haven’t had any 12V battery issues and don’t expect any.

 

[The Weatherman]

Is there a way to monitor the state of charge on the small battery?

Yes! I have found a battery monitoring system that can be accessed via your phones Bluetooth. However it does take a minuet amount of energy for the BT to operate.

I check it every couple of days if I’m not driving the truck and put a trickle charger on when the SOC drops below about 70%. Or when I know an update is loading that night.

I will look for a link to the one I’ve used, if I can find it.

QUICKLYNKS Auto Battery Monitor... https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01MT4583U?ref=ppx_pop_mob_ap_share

 

[Rockyl32]

Thank you. I was hoping there was somthing already onboard for that. no setting in sync to see how a battery is doing in a battery powered vehicle? I understand this is not one of the batteries that provide propulsion but it sounds as if it is still an important enough part of the system for the operator to be able to see its SOC. I hear this is the main reason some don’t get their updates. I am told this small battery has to be at 80% for it to update, if that is true how do we know?

 

[invertedspear]

Yes! I have found a battery monitoring system that can be accessed via your phones Bluetooth. However it does take a minuet amount of energy for the BT to operate.

I check it every couple of days if I’m not driving the truck and put a trickle charger on when the SOC drops below about 70%. Or when I know an update is loading that night.

I will look for a link to the one I’ve used, if I can find it.

QUICKLYNKS Auto Battery Monitor... https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01MT4583U?ref=ppx_pop_mob_ap_share

This is cool, but a $25 part to install for something the truck already knows but has no UI for is a bit aggravating.

 

[The Weatherman]

Thank you. I was hoping there was somthing already onboard for that. no setting in sync to see how a battery is doing in a battery powered vehicle? I understand this is not one of the batteries that provide propulsion but it sounds as if it is still an important enough part of the system for the operator to be able to see its SOC. I hear this is the main reason some don’t get their updates. I am told this small battery has to be at 80% for it to update, if that is true how do we know?

You are correct about its roll. If and until Ford makes it available on the Sync system, this how I managed to monitor it without going the ODBII route.

 

[John Becker]

The low voltage battery problems are a design flaw carried over from the ICE trucks except they put a teeny tiny battery in since it doesn't need to start the ICE engine. The 12V battery is a Lead-Acid Advanced Glass Mat battery that is chronically discharged on a daily basis. If you drive the truck 20-30 miles or more twice a day, you will be ok. If you don't you will have problems and the battery will have a shortened life span.

Design issues:

1. The 12V battery does not charge when the truck is plugged in - in fact, it continues to DISCHARGE as it keeps the modem and other modules live for the FordPass activities. What engineer thought this was ok???
2. When the 12V battery drops to 30% SOC, the truck "may" decide to charge it from the HVB but only to a slightly higher level (like 50%) and not to the needed 80-100% SOC for good AGM health.
3. Chronically discharged lead-acid batteries age significantly faster when SOC is below 80%. AGM batteries are more resistant to chronic discharges but it is ridiculous to ask a lead-acid AGM to tolerate this kind of abuse.

The top two design issues can be solved by software updates. Simply keep the 12v AGM between 50-80% ALL of the time. Ford can send us a message if they like, to say your LVB is charging from the HVB (instead of the Electrical System Drain service message Ford currently sends and does nothing about). Ford can put an option in the setting if Ford thinks it is needed. In any case, please address this to improve the reliability of our trucks.

For Design issue 3) simply replace the AGM with a Lithium pack and adjust the charge profile - most of us already have 131kW Lithium packs so adding a small efficient 12v pack that is kept between 30-80% SOC will last many many more years than a chronically discharged AGM.

Do you know if Ford's AGM battery is a deep cycle?

 

[Jseis]

I drove our MME 50K miles, hit a deer. In those daily 90 mile commutes and nightly recharging, never saw a low battery warning. But took the car to the body shop (scheduling nightmare) about a month after the deer strike. After 5 days in the shop, we started getting daily low battery warnings. Picked up on the 8th day and that ended with one nuance. I’m driving the LTE (Lightning Extended Range) now and the S.O. drives the MME about 5 miles a day if that and about once a week we get a low battery warning. The MME is 2.5 years from build date (April ‘21). When I drove it commuting, my diagnostic reader would show 70% on a Monday morning, get to 94% in an hour. Would lose 10% by end of work- then charge back to 92-95%. That battery replacement is $300 plus so I’m hoping it makes three years… maybe yes? Maybe no?

I’ve wondered about putting the MME on the 120V always and have it cycle through a departure time daily. Keep HVB at 80% but cycle HVAC, etc. even if car isn’t used. Weird trickle charger?

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