Ford Mobile Charger trips GFCI outlet (110) and do I need a 50 AMP GFCI circuit for Ford Mobile 240 charging?

[chl]

GFCI with 120v -- I don't know. The mobile unit has GFI in it, I think. So no need to worry about using a standard circuit. 120v charging a Lightning is horrid though.

Ford Mobile EVSE allows charging at 30A. Into a 40A or 50A 240v outlet there is no problem. 240v GFCI circuits are rare as heck. Only used with EVSE and perhaps the occasional pool or hot-tub. Ford "recommends" them, because NEC code now says the 240v plug used for EVSE needs to be GFCI. This NEC rule is NOT because the EVSE needs GFI. That is built it. Its because un-informed folks could pull out the 240V plug before disconnecting the J1772 plug. This will result in a nice little ball of electrical arc if the vehicle is actually charging. A lot more danger than just a 120v plug pulled while under load.

I didn't really answer either of your questions, but perhaps a bit helpful.

The Ford mobile unit really sucks by the way -- unable to derate to 24A, which would be so useful for folks that can find a 30A dryer circuit (need 80% derate for cont duty to 24A). But the Ford unit is $500 boat anchor. Sorry to be so negative. Portable units need to be programable -- whole purpose of portable is that you don't know what kind of power you are going to find......

The actual specs from Ford say it will draw 32A continuous - so if anyone is thinking of using it with a 30A circuit, don't, 40A would be the minimum circuit needed (125% x 32A=40A per code).

My hot tub is hard-wired on a 60A 240V GFCI breaker in a sub-panel inside the house and a fused disconnect outside the house, per code, and inside the hot tube control box there is yet another fuse. Not sure how 'rare' hot tubs are, but 240V GFCI breakers are required by code. Code also requires a 120V GFCI circuit within a certain distance of the hot tub, maybe 50Ft?

Some hot tubs come with the GFCI built into a plug in set up.

You do not want two GFCI's on a given circuit if you don't want to have false tripping issues.

BTW, the power company installed a whole house surge protection with multiple ground rods after a few nearby storm-based lightning strikes hit nearby and fried some computer equipment in my house, also popped the disconnect box fuses on the hot tub and the HVAC - since then, no problems with surges.

There's always something...

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[itdwebman]

The actual specs from Ford say it will draw 32A continuous - so if anyone is thinking of using it with a 30A circuit, don't, 40A would be the minimum circuit needed (125% x 32A=40A per code).

My hot tub is hard-wired on a 60A 240V GFCI breaker in a sub-panel inside the house and a fused disconnect outside the house, per code, and inside the hot tube control box there is yet another fuse. Not sure how 'rare' hot tubs are, but 240V GFCI breakers are required by code. Code also requires a 120V GFCI circuit within a certain distance of the hot tub, maybe 50Ft?

Some hot tubs come with the GFCI built into a plug in set up.

You do not want two GFCI's on a given circuit if you don't want to have false tripping issues.

BTW, the power company installed a whole house surge protection with multiple ground rods after a few nearby storm-based lightning strikes hit nearby and fried some computer equipment in my house, also popped the disconnect box fuses on the hot tub and the HVAC - since then, no problems with surges.

There's always something...

This is good information - I looked at my Garage electrical circuit - 20AMP breaker with at least three outlets - at least two have GFCI outlets. An old fridge is plugged into one of the outlets the rest have light loads. Wonder now based on all this information if the fact there were more than one GCFI outlet on the breaker.

 

[Heliian]

Never trust a gfci outlet. They fail sometimes.

. Far more flexible units are out there for much less money.

Not really. The cord was $500 CAD and does 120v 12a and 240v 32a.
The lightning maxes out at 12a on 120v, doesn't matter the evse.

A quality evse that is adjustable is the best option but by the time you get set up with adapters you are at least double the cost if not more.

Do not buy the cheapest from amazon, they are junk.

 

[chl]

This is good information - I looked at my Garage electrical circuit - 20AMP breaker with at least three outlets - at least two have GFCI outlets. An old fridge is plugged into one of the outlets the rest have light loads. Wonder now based on all this information if the fact there were more than one GCFI outlet on the breaker.

As long as the GFCI circuits are not in series with each other, there should be no tripping problem.
Places like garages are required to use GFCI outlets by modern codes.

One thing I left out about the tripping of the GFCI in the Ford - obviously if you overload the circuit, that is, draw more current than it is rated for, the breaker will trip. I assumed you had ruled that out, but it is another reason the Ford GFCI could be tripping.

 

[itdwebman]

I recommend checking with an electrician or contacting Ford for guidance on using the Ford Mobile Charger with GFCI outlets. They'll have the best advice for you.

Thanks - I did call Ford and they indicated their recommendation is based only on perceived electrical Code Meaning if the code is to have a GFCI breaker for garage installation - it needs to be done, The Mobile charger does not have a built-in GFCI Not all the locations I visit will have access to an installed Level 2 charger - so being able to have a reliable Mobile Charging option is key

I did not Ford very helpful in this area - but their charging Team is very helpful with general questions.

 

[Maquis]

, The Mobile charger does not have a built-in GFCI

Yes it does. As does every UL-listed EVSE. It required by the listing standard.

 

[itdwebman]

Yes it does. As does every UL-listed EVSE. It required by the listing standard.

Thanks - I believe you - but what I said is what Ford told me . I am hopeful that I will have a smooth charging experience with it until the Ford charger is sent to me. This process of waiting for Sunrun to ship is not a good customer experience.

 

[itdwebman]

The issue I had was a defective 50 AMP breaker - The Mobile Charger now working but at a charge rate of 6KW which seems slow on a 240V 50AMP circuit.

 

[Maquis]

The issue I had was a defective 50 AMP breaker - The Mobile Charger now working but at a charge rate of 6KW which seems slow on a 240V 50AMP circuit.

The FMC is only 30A max. 30 X 240V = 7.2 KW. After losses and FordPass truncation, 6 KW is correct.

 

[cdherman]

The issue I had was a defective 50 AMP breaker - The Mobile Charger now working but at a charge rate of 6KW which seems slow on a 240V 50AMP circuit.

For any future readers, a Grizzl-E 40A unit from amazon costs $350 and is VERY well made and respected, as its popular in Canda, as its made there. Fully UL listed.

Had the op went with it, he would be charging at 9600 watts, have the ability to derate the EVSE to 32 24, 16A 240v charging. The Grizzl-E is NOT a smart charger -- no wifi etc. But is rated to Canadian sorts of temps!

The portable is Grizzl-E is $449. The base unit can be moved and is rated for indoor and outdoor use, so its essentially portable as well, but you would likely rough up the case over time. For regular portable use, I'd look elsewhere. A 32A portable unit is sufficient, since finding accessible 50A circuits when traveling doesn't happen much anyhow, and the 32A portable have lighter cabling, making them easier to move around and store.

 

[lightningtamer]

I know this is old, but I'm an electrical contractor, this is anecdotal and screw ford for their overpriced chargers but I have yet to see one draw more than 24 amps. I've had more issues with the nema 50 plugs, industrial, ev rated, continuous draw, whatever the specific manufacturer wants to call it and started installing 30 amp twist lock receptacles and recommending using the twist lock 30 amp receptacles and changing out the breaker to a 30a. Have the inspector show up after a day of a power meter being hooked up. No issues yet, I do guarantee the work and will fix any tripping issues, none yet.

 

[TheWoo]

I know this is old, but I'm an electrical contractor, this is anecdotal and screw ford for their overpriced chargers but I have yet to see one draw more than 24 amps. I've had more issues with the nema 50 plugs, industrial, ev rated, continuous draw, whatever the specific manufacturer wants to call it and started installing 30 amp twist lock receptacles and recommending using the twist lock 30 amp receptacles and changing out the breaker to a 30a. Have the inspector show up after a day of a power meter being hooked up. No issues yet, I do guarantee the work and will fix any tripping issues, none yet.

You have yet to see what draw more than 24 amps? Any EVSE? The Ford mobile charger specifically? And how are you going from the 14-30r to the 14-50p? A dongle adapter?

None of this feels like a good plan given the number of 30-32 amp EVSEs out there.

 

[lightningtamer]

You have yet to see what draw more than 24 amps? Any EVSE? The Ford mobile charger specifically? And how are you going from the 14-30r to the 14-50p? A dongle adapter?

None of this feels like a good plan given the number of 30-32 amp EVSEs out there.

The ford mobile charger. I did say screw ford and their overpriced chargers, that's what I was referring to. Every lightning I've dealt with, my own and 5 or so others that came with a mobile charger also has the nema 50- 30a twist lock adapter. Wherever ford sourced then they make incredibly tight contact unlike the nema 50s

This is a lightning form, talking about the ford mobile charger. There are also 100amp chargers, if I tried to upsell people on going to #2 copper and a disconnect, almost everyone who didn't already have one would say no. Keep in mind the wiring is still rated for a 50a charger, it's only the breaker and receptacle I'm talking about.
This is a response to people wondering what they can get away with in terms of electrical safety.

30a welder plugs or generator hookups (generator plugs SHOULD have a transfer switch but older houses sometimes just run to a breaker) are MUCH more common than finding a nema 50 in a garage or exterior of a house. The previous is the safe way to take advantage of that.

 

[itdwebman]

Best to use a licensed electric contractor in your area, I use the Ford 80amp charger and have used the ChargePoint 60AMP and .emporia set at 40AMP charting- all worked great with my Lightning. It's all about charging speed and special KW charging rates. If I was driving more during the day my FCSP would be the way to quickly replenish the Truck. But FCSP is a closed-loop charger. I have used the Ford mobile charger too and it works fine and slowly

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