One pedal driving- mechanical question

[PreservedSwine]

I just received my F150 lightning. I have a question about regenerative braking. While using it will extend the lifespan of the brake pads, and other brake components, does it do so at the expense of shorter ev motor life?

EV efficiency aside, which one is less expensive when long term maintenance is king?

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[WhipSticks]

Great Question! I am not sure that the real answer is knowable at this point. I expect we will have to wait for enough service records to accumulate to see how prevalent electric motor issues become over time.
But from an engineering perspective, I would expect that the resistance to rotation provided by the electromagnetic induction in the motors would produce much less "wear" than the brakes would otherwise experience. I strongly suspect that regenerative breaking is a net win from a cost perspective.

 

[sotek2345]

I just received my F150 lightning. I have a question about regenerative braking. While using it will extend the lifespan of the brake pads, and other brake components, does it do so at the expense of shorter ev motor life?

EV efficiency aside, which one is less expensive when long term maintenance is king?

A couple things.

1) Unless Ford really botched the design, the electric motors should outlast just about everything else on the truck.

2) Regen breaking doesn't really add any wear to the motors. They are spinning (biggest source of wear) regardless, it is just a question as to whether power is being sent to them (to keep them spinning and not regenerating), or power is being taken from them.

3) Ford uses blended braking, so it doesn't matter if you are using 1-pedal driving or not, when you are slowing down you are using regen first before the friction brakes. The only way to avoid this would be to SLAM the brakes every times to force the pads to engage. From a long term maintenance perspective, you should break hard every one in a while to make sure the friction brakes are getting used and don't rust up!

 

[RickLightning]

A couple things.

1) Unless Ford really botched the design, the electric motors should outlast just about everything else on the truck.

2) Regen breaking doesn't really add any wear to the motors. They are spinning (biggest source of wear) regardless, it is just a question as to whether power is being sent to them (to keep them spinning and not regenerating), or power is being taken from them.

3) Ford uses blended braking, so it doesn't matter if you are using 1-pedal driving or not, when you are slowing down you are using regen first before the friction brakes. The only way to avoid this would be to SLAM the brakes every times to force the pads to engage. From a long term maintenance perspective, you should break hard every one in a while to make sure the friction brakes are getting used and don't rust up!

For #3, you can get to speed (make sure it's clear behind you), shift to N, brake gently, shift to D, get to speed, repeat. I do that after every car wash or rain event, and every few weeks when I think of it.

 

[sotek2345]

For #3, you can get to speed (make sure it's clear behind you), shift to N, brake gently, shift to D, get to speed, repeat. I do that after every car wash or rain event, and every few weeks when I think of it.

Yup - that works too.

 

[TaxmanHog]

Materials science, the bearings in the CV joints and motors might wear more than the equivalent ICE transmissions, transaxles & differentials since EV's are dealing with both acceleration and deceleration forces.

I wonder how high mileage older EV's like Tesla's are faring at this point in time?

 

[Zprime29]

For #3, you can get to speed (make sure it's clear behind you), shift to N, brake gently, shift to D, get to speed, repeat. I do that after every car wash or rain event, and every few weeks when I think of it.

I use two pedal and some times I need to brake hard (like when the light changes and I make the split second decision to brake instead of risk running a red light) and I get less than 90% on the brake coach. Is it safe to assume that the physical brakes have engaged then? Or is the % reported low because there was insufficient time on the brakes to regen all that could be regened?

EDIT: Sorry, not trying to hijack thread.

 

[RickLightning]

The brake pads are used at the end of the stop, regardless. But your lower score is due to exactly what you have just said, you kicked in the physical brakes due to the suddenness of the stop.

 

[invertedspear]

I use two pedal and some times I need to brake hard (like when the light changes and I make the split second decision to brake instead of risk running a red light) and I get less than 90% on the brake coach. Is it safe to assume that the physical brakes have engaged then? Or is the % reported low because there was insufficient time on the brakes to regen all that could be regened?

EDIT: Sorry, not trying to hijack thread.

Watching the power distribution screen, I had the brake coach show me less than 100% with the regen not even engaging 50% of what it's capable of. Based on what I read in the manual, the coach is attempting to train you for the most efficiency. Since no amount of regen is 100% efficient, it's still more efficient to reduce speed over a long period of time than to engage regen at it's fullest, so that's what the coach is telling you. Brake coach is near useless without explaining why it scores you as it does on a particular braking event. It's a good idea, poorly executed. A brake coach report in the app would be better than anything on screen.

 

[RickLightning]

Brake coach has existed as a feature in Ford PHEVs for years. It's not going to change.

 

[Zprime29]

Watching the power distribution screen, I had the brake coach show me less than 100% with the regen not even engaging 50% of what it's capable of. Based on what I read in the manual, the coach is attempting to train you for the most efficiency. Since no amount of regen is 100% efficient, it's still more efficient to reduce speed over a long period of time than to engage regen at it's fullest, so that's what the coach is telling you. Brake coach is near useless without explaining why it scores you as it does on a particular braking event. It's a good idea, poorly executed. A brake coach report in the app would be better than anything on screen.

That exactly what I was wondering, thanks!

 

[Lytning]

Materials science, the bearings in the CV joints and motors might wear more than the equivalent ICE transmissions, transaxles & differentials since EV's are dealing with both acceleration and deceleration forces.

I wonder how high mileage older EV's like Tesla's are faring at this point in time?

I had similar concerns with my 2000 SVT Lightning. I locked out the overdrive and used engine compression "braking" for my mostly city driving. I put 90,000 miles on it. I did see significantly improved brake life (50,000+ miles), but I did not see any driveline issues.

 

[Tclark5]

A couple things.

1) Unless Ford really botched the design, the electric motors should outlast just about everything else on the truck.

2) Regen breaking doesn't really add any wear to the motors. They are spinning (biggest source of wear) regardless, it is just a question as to whether power is being sent to them (to keep them spinning and not regenerating), or power is being taken from them.

3) Ford uses blended braking, so it doesn't matter if you are using 1-pedal driving or not, when you are slowing down you are using regen first before the friction brakes. The only way to avoid this would be to SLAM the brakes every times to force the pads to engage. From a long term maintenance perspective, you should break hard every one in a while to make sure the friction brakes are getting used and don't rust up!

I think the friction brakes are being used every time you stop! When you are at a standstill, friction brakes are holding you, not the motors! So I disagree with slamming your brakes on!

 

[sotek2345]

I think the friction brakes are being used every time you stop! When you are at a standstill, friction brakes are holding you, not the motors! So I disagree with slamming your brakes on!

They are, but they only touch a small portion of the rotor, you want a few full sweeps to get the rust off every now and again. Shifting to neutral and braking alls does this.

 

[Maquis]

I think the friction brakes are being used every time you stop! When you are at a standstill, friction brakes are holding you, not the motors! So I disagree with slamming your brakes on!

If you come to full stop using regen, the mechanical brakes get applied right at the stopping point. So while they are technically “being used”, there’s virtually no dynamic interaction between the pads and rotors. To keep the pads and rotors “clean”, you need to intenentionally engage the mechanical brakes in some manner while in motion. I also use Rick’s method of shifting to ”N” and then braking. There’s no need to “slam on the brakes.”

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