Tesla Supercharger access for Ford EVs estimated to begin February 2024 (by Tesla)

[ZSC100]

That cable looks like it is only rated for 250A. They are careful to spec it as up to 250 kW and it is rated for 1000V. They never specify the current limit so more than likely the only way to get 250 kW is on a 1000V system. On the lightning you’ll only get around 100 kW. Also, it’s not clear how the charger or the car will know the cable is limited so there’s a risk that you could exceed the rating, maybe by as much as twice the limit. If that’s the case there’s going to be another round of news stories about EVs bursting into flames.

Any cables or adapters that are sold in North America and NEC approved will likely have CAN middle man capabilities to limit all this stuff and even monitor temp. This is stuff the GP doesn't think about and generally has no clue about. Everyone just thinks b/c Jim and Elon pulled a PR stunt that Tesla chargers are just going to open up and everyone is going to be able to charge as easy as Tesla always has. NO,, this is more likely to be a huge disaster and take many unexpected turns in who knows what direction. I can't wait to see who Elon tells to F** off next

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[jetfixr1]

No body knows what Tesla will or won't do any more than they know what Elon will or won't say LOL

I can tell you that in the DFW area Superchargers are already overwhelmed to a point that letting any other brand in IS going to be a major PR problem for Tesla. Too many people own Teslas without a way to charge where they live. This is a major problem that to date I think is only a Tesla problem.

It's a big problem when people purchase an EV and believe, or led to believe, that DCFC on a daily basis is how you should charge.

 

[Texas Dan]

I maxed out on one of 250 kW Magic Dock Superchargers at 114 kW. That’s not bad but I routinely max out on EA chargers at over 150 kW even on the chargers rated at 150 kW. If we can charge on 150 kW V2 Superchargers with the adapter , I wouldn’t expect much improvement charging on a 250 kW V3 Supercharger.

 

[Texas Dan]

It's a big problem when people purchase an EV and believe, or led to believe, that DCFC on a daily basis is how you should charge.

Your comment is highly subjective. I have known people that did exactly as mentioned but found alternative charging over time. Even charging daily at 120V works for some people.

I don’t believe many people are as stupid as you make out. I think even the most naive EV buyers has an idea of what they need to do to keep their EV charged. And with a little experience people quickly learn what works and what doesn’t.

 

[Hammick]

Stayed at the Heartland Inn in Wheatland, WY on 12-8. They have V2 superchargers on location. The maintenance guy said the chargers were getting upgraded soon. He also said Casper and Sheridan were getting upgraded. So if WY superchargers are getting upgraded I'm guessing all of them will get upgraded.

 

[tls]

V2 doesn't support the protocols the CCS vehicles need to communicate. Unless Tesla retrofits them, we can only charge on V3 and V4 stations.

The ones I really wonder about are the Urban Superchargers. They're 85kW with no sharing between handles - every vehicle can charge simultaneously at full rate and they're often installed in locations like mall parking lots. We shop at a grocery store in a mall that has 20 of these. You can always get a space, and 85kW is sized just about perfect for charging while you shop, unless you pull in totally dead empty. This is how my wife's Model Y usually gets charged midweek.

I believe these were designed well after the v2 units, but before the 250kW v3 units. It will be too bad if they never support CCS.

 

[RickLightning]

Your comment is highly subjective. I have known people that did exactly as mentioned but found alternative charging over time. Even charging daily at 120V works for some people.

I don’t believe many people are as stupid as you make out. I think even the most naive EV buyers has an idea of what they need to do to keep their EV charged. And with a little experience people quickly learn what works and what doesn’t.

You clearly haven't been at many public chargers.

 

[ZSC100]

You clearly haven't been at many public chargers.

Yea, boy have I got some stories of stupidity at DCFCs. I know I sound harsh, I always try to help, but it is terrible. Most everyone has no clue what a charge rate is or what size their battery is. Both are vital quantitative #'s every owner should know. The 2nd thing is ettiquite, but it's hard to judge someone further when they know nothing technical. We have several free DCFCs in Tulsa and a most bizarre charging company Francis Energy which further complicated things

 

[RickKeen]

That cable looks like it is only rated for 250A. They are careful to spec it as up to 250 kW and it is rated for 1000V. They never specify the current limit so more than likely the only way to get 250 kW is on a 1000V system. On the lightning you’ll only get around 100 kW. Also, it’s not clear how the charger or the car will know the cable is limited so there’s a risk that you could exceed the rating, maybe by as much as twice the limit. If that’s the case there’s going to be another round of news stories about EVs bursting into flames.

Its all about the amps, not the volts. The CCS standard connector max is 500 amps, and that is also about the max the Lightning can currently take. Lightning's voltage is down around 350 volts. 500 amps x 350 volts is 175kW which is around the max rate people have reported.

A useful DC extension cable needs to handle at least 500 amps.

I have seen that some adapters have a simple fail-safe thermistor that disconnects the data pin on overheat. When the data connection drops, charging gets halted.

 

[roadhouse]

Most everyone has no clue what a charge rate is or what size their battery is. Both are vital quantitative #'s every owner should know.

Why though? It's only because of the limitations of charging networks and range that we need to know these things in detail. How important is it for the average person top know how many gallons of gas their ICE cars take? Not important at all - the light comes on and the gauge drops, then they get more.

There's a lot of sentiment on this forum about 'Oh the buyer should have researched how temperature impacts range, you should know to use PlugShare and ABRP and not the Ford Nav for charging unless you want to pre-condition (and you should know what pre-conditioning is) and you need to know the details of different size chargers and charging curves and ...' . That's all mostly correct, and the reason that we need to know that is to paper over the fairly big gaps that prevent EVs from being adopted more widely. And each time you say this to someone who doesn't already own an EV, they rightfully say 'Well I can't be bothered with any of that, I'll just buy an ICE vehicle instead'.

While EVs have matured, DCFC is basically still in the early-adopter phase while everyone tried to figure out how to rollout, manage and integrate charging networks.

 

[ZSC100]

Why though? It's only because of the limitations of charging networks and range that we need to know these things in detail. How important is it for the average person top know how many gallons of gas their ICE cars take? Not important at all - the light comes on and the gauge drops, then they get more.

There's a lot of sentiment on this forum about 'Oh the buyer should have researched how temperature impacts range, you should know to use PlugShare and ABRP and not the Ford Nav for charging unless you want to pre-condition (and you should know what pre-conditioning is) and you need to know the details of different size chargers and charging curves and ...' . That's all mostly correct, and the reason that we need to know that is to paper over the fairly big gaps that prevent EVs from being adopted more widely. And each time you say this to someone who doesn't already own an EV, they rightfully say 'Well I can't be bothered with any of that, I'll just buy an ICE vehicle instead'.

Yea, the knowledge and courtesy we're talking about here is similar to when diesel owners get pissed that a little gasser is sitting in one of the 2 out of 12 pumps that offers both diesel and gas. It's common courtesy to utilize the resource that is most appropriate for you at the time, especially if the resource is limited. Knowledge helps drive smart decisions that help everyone get along and use the system the most efficiently.

 

[RickLightning]

Yea, boy have I got some stories of stupidity at DCFCs. I know I sound harsh, I always try to help, but it is terrible. Most everyone has no clue what a charge rate is or what size their battery is. Both are vital quantitative #'s every owner should know. The 2nd thing is ettiquite, but it's hard to judge someone further when they know nothing technical. We have several free DCFCs in Tulsa and a most bizarre charging company Francis Energy which further complicated things

On a recent trip....

- Bolt owner, sitting at 350 charger. Mentioned he charges under 50kW and others could use the speed. He stared at me.

- Subaru owner. First trip, they hadn't ever DC fast charged. They asked people why the screen said 234 minutes left. I explained they were having an issue, either the chargeport or software, since two others had charged at normal speeds. They said I was wrong, so they switched chargers and got the same result. They got on the phone to Subaru who said to call a dealer. They were hours from their destination and were going to miss an appointment, also hours from home.

- Multiple locals charging, even at locations with lines. One said "I am retired, $6 is more expensive than free, I don't mind sitting here." When I pointed out he was taking the spot from a person on a trip who was waiting, he shrugged.

- Broken EA charger. Warned multiple people. 75% tried anyway.

 

[invertedspear]

- Broken EA charger. Warned multiple people. 75% tried anyway.

When I pulled in to the EA in Palm Springs, 2 were occupied and 2 showing error screens, I got in line. The next car came in and plugged in to one of the stations showing error and it reset and they got a charge. Since then I now will try when stations show errors, just in case I get that lucky.

 

[davehu]

This isn't going to change anything for you, there are chargers already on the route for you that will charge your truck at the maximum rate. This is only going to be clutch for a few people who want to road trip a lot and improvise. I've driven my truck all over the midwest and had zero problems, other than the occasional slow (50kW) rate of charge, but I have a friend with a Tesla in Tulsa and he gets under 50kW at both of our superchargers routinely. He has grandfathered free supercharging so I suspect that has something to do with it. That would be just like Tesla to reduce his speed b/c he is charging for free. I can't wait to see all the lightning owners who think this is going to make such a huge difference nationwide when they experience 50kW charge rates.

I beg to differ. there is one EA DCFC for our trip to Dallas. and ZERO if we're going to Houston (US 59). access to Teslas changes the Houston route from 0 to 4 and to Dallas from 1 to 4. Can't wait! Until then my wifes car will carry the load. Oh, and the Tesla chargers can be counted on to work. what a concept.

 

[ZSC100]

There is a Shell in Longview right in the middle of your trip. Be prepared to pay 55c/kWhr, but it will be faster than any Tesla charger that will ever open up for you. So if you have a place to charge L2 in Houston you'll want to plan your trip carefully. This is one thing that will never change with EV's that is so different to ICE vehicles. If you want to charge at a fast rate you'll pay over 5 times as much; Tesla isn't going to change this, nothing is going to change this. It would be no different for ICE if we had gas spigots at every house. GAS pumps, brick and mortar stores, big holding tanks, etc cost a lot of money,, as do DCFCs. L2 charging is like buying fuel straight from the refinery at 1/4 the cost and no road tax. EV's are turning so many systems upside down, this is why it's so controversial, political, and disruptive. It's a wild time we're in, and nobody can predict the future.

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