Top battery off to 90% every day?

[Henry Ford]

Battery life is measured in complete charge and discharge cycles. It's additive to 100% either fully charged or discharged, so smaller charges are the same as one large charge.

the ford Lightning battery is rated at 10,000 charge cycles. That's 10,000 full charges and discharges. It's irrelevant if it's one large charge or multiple charges.

You are aware @MickeyAO tests EV batteries for his profession, right? I'm taking his advice until Ford EV engineers start posting here, which will not happen.

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[Henry Ford]

data...hell, I don't follow my advice when it comes to acceleration

What's your advice when it comes to acceleration? I probably won't follow it despite what I said in the post immediately above this but I'm interested.

 

[MickeyAO]

What's your advice when it comes to acceleration? I probably won't follow it despite what I said in the post immediately above this but I'm interested.

I think there was a thread where I said how you can make the cells last virtually forever.

 

[Jim Lewis]

the ford Lightning battery is rated at 10,000 charge cycles

"Rated" for what - not to blow up or catch on fire before 10,000 cycles?

The "typical" EV battery life cycle is 1,500 to 2,000 "complete" charge cycles until performance drops below usable levels, according to Bing ChatGPT4/Microsoft Copilot (references cited). However, as the requested summary notes, how long your battery lasts depends on a number of factors. It's never guaranteed, no matter what you do.

https://sl.bing.net/eci0QDoYDjU

Edit_Update: Another way of looking at this is what's Ford's warranty? 100,000 miles or eight years. How long would it take you to get to 100,000 miles. Driving at 70 mph under ideal weather conditions and ~level terrain, you can get about 2 mi/kWh. With an ER battery, that's ~260 miles on a full charge. How many times does 260 mi (a full charge) go into 100,000 miles. 100,000 mi divided by 260 mi/full charge = ~385 full charges to go 100,000 miles (and still have 70% capacity left, which is getting low on EV performance). So Ford is really only warranting the Lightning ER to buyers for roughly 400 or so equivalent full-charge cycles, not 10,000.

 

[Henry Ford]

I think there was a thread where I said how you can make the cells last virtually forever.

I'll just assume the answer is "don't."

 

[John Becker]

I think there was a thread where I said how you can make the cells last virtually forever.

Care to share?

 

[MickeyAO]

Care to share?

Do a search on my posts...I'm not going to search for it.

 

[Traconesu]

The guy on here who tests batteries for a living limits his to 85% unless he needs more range that day. I follow his lead.

I used to just charge my lightning to 80% but was having problems getting my OTA updates because they said my 12 volt battery didn't have sufficient charge. Ford assist recommended I charged to 85% which solved the failed update problem.

 

[Jim Lewis]

MickeyAO said:
I think there was a thread where I said how you can make the cells last virtually forever.

Care to share?

A couple of golden oldies from @MickeyAO. Since these posts are over several years old, I'm not sure if he would have anything to update about what he wrote way back when... He's noted a number of times that he doesn't plan to try to make his battery last forever or, IIRC, keep his truck for more than a few years.

https://www.f150lightningforum.com/forum/threads/motortrend-rivian-r1t-first-drive.5536/post-94080

https://www.f150lightningforum.com/forum/threads/motortrend-rivian-r1t-first-drive.5536/post-94102

Since these posts covered the basics, I gave up looking after finding them. There may be other informative posts by MickeyAO that I overlooked.

Edit_Update: Some other MickeyAO post links that I culled in February 2023 and forgot I had:

https://www.f150lightningforum.com/forum/threads/updated-with-ford-statement-2-15-23--lightning-stop-production-stop-shipment-issued-due-to-potential-battery-issue.14540/page-11#post-302688

https://www.f150lightningforum.com/forum/threads/updated-with-ford-statement-2-15-23--lightning-stop-production-stop-shipment-issued-due-to-potential-battery-issue.14540/post-302714

https://www.f150lightningforum.com/forum/threads/updated-with-ford-statement-2-15-23--lightning-stop-production-stop-shipment-issued-due-to-potential-battery-issue.14540/post-302715

https://www.f150lightningforum.com/...t-drain-new-battery-to-zero.10780/post-219745 (post of Mickey's as quoted by PV2EV).

I used to just charge my lightning to 80% but was having problems getting my OTA updates because they said my 12 volt battery didn't have sufficient charge. Ford assist recommended I charged to 85% which solved the failed update problem.

I don't know that charging your HVB necessarily charges your LVB (12-volt battery). In fact, as you drive your truck and discharge your HVB, you're charging your LVB. Most folks use some variation of that approach or a battery tender to charge their LVB. I can charge my LVB by running my truck in accessory mode plugged into my FCSP. The HVB drains relatively little (and does not charge), but my LVB charges.

 

[Traconesu]

A couple of golden oldies from @MickeyAO. Since these posts are over several years old, I'm not sure if he would have anything to update about what he wrote way back when... He's noted a number of times that he doesn't plan to try to make his battery last forever or, IIRC, keep his truck for more than a few years.

https://www.f150lightningforum.com/forum/threads/motortrend-rivian-r1t-first-drive.5536/post-94080

https://www.f150lightningforum.com/forum/threads/motortrend-rivian-r1t-first-drive.5536/post-94102

Since these posts covered the basics, I gave up looking after finding them. There may be other informative posts by MickeyAO that I overlooked.

Edit_Update: Some other MicekyAO post links that I culled in February 2023 and forgot I had:

https://www.f150lightningforum.com/forum/threads/updated-with-ford-statement-2-15-23--lightning-stop-production-stop-shipment-issued-due-to-potential-battery-issue.14540/page-11#post-302688

https://www.f150lightningforum.com/forum/threads/updated-with-ford-statement-2-15-23--lightning-stop-production-stop-shipment-issued-due-to-potential-battery-issue.14540/post-302714

https://www.f150lightningforum.com/forum/threads/updated-with-ford-statement-2-15-23--lightning-stop-production-stop-shipment-issued-due-to-potential-battery-issue.14540/post-302715

https://www.f150lightningforum.com/...t-drain-new-battery-to-zero.10780/post-219745 (post of Mickey's as quoted by PV2EV).


I don't know that charging your HVB necessarily charges your LVB (12-volt battery). In fact, as you drive your truck and discharge your HVB, you're charging your LVB. Most folks use some variation of that approach or a battery tender to charge their LVB. I can charge my LVB by running my truck in accessory mode plugged into my FCSP. The HVB drains relatively little (and does not charge), but my LVB charges.

Apparently charging my high voltage battery has something to do with charging my 12 volt battery because it was recommended by Ford to charge to 85% to top off the 12 volt battery and that fixed my problem getting my OTA updates. Coincidence, I don't know. But it worked.

 

[TaxmanHog]

Apparently charging my high voltage battery has something to do with charging my 12 volt battery because it was recommended by Ford to charge to 85% to top off the 12 volt battery and that fixed my problem getting my OTA updates. Coincidence, I don't know. But it worked.

It does charge the LVB while plugged in and charging the HVB, I've observed the same last week while coaxing my truck to install 6.8.0

 

[Traconesu]

It does charge the LVB while plugged in and charging the HVB, I've observed the same last week while coaxing my truck to install 6.8.0

Thanks.. I hope this helps future lightning owners because originally ford said to just charge to 80% but as you & I noted that can cause problems getting OTA updates. So 85% is what I charge to and will occasionally take it to 100% but I don't normally charge more than 85%.

 

[Jim Lewis]

but as you & I noted that can cause problems getting OTA updates. So 85% is what I charge to

Just using a trickle charger or letting the truck run a little bit every day in accessory mode*** (or full-on) with all accessories off seems like a better route for the long-term lifespan of the HVB battery - the same for the relative value of driving to charge your LVB - costs miles and depreciation just to charge your LVB if you have no other reason to drive. And if you don't drive, you won't have "space" to charge your HVB to charge your LVB, and the LVB will still drain all the time for running the truck's accessories/electronics/security system, etc.

Ford really missed the mark on its LVB charging vs. OTA updates, IMHO, and it needs to do something to remedy the situation retroactively for Lightning owners.

*** Best to do this with your vehicle secured. Mine's locked in my garage when I'm leaving it "on."

 

[RickLightning]

Thanks.. I hope this helps future lightning owners because originally ford said to just charge to 80% but as you & I noted that can cause problems getting OTA updates. So 85% is what I charge to and will occasionally take it to 100% but I don't normally charge more than 85%.

2022 manual says less than 100%. Don't believe Ford had ever said 80% for AC charging.

Just using a trickle charger or letting the truck run a little bit every day in accessory mode*** (or full-on) with all accessories off seems like a better route for the long-term lifespan of the HVB battery - the same for the relative value of driving to charge your LVB - costs miles and depreciation just to charge your LVB if you have no other reason to drive. And if you don't drive, you won't have "space" to charge your HVB to charge your LVB, and the LVB will still drain all the time for running the truck's accessories/electronics/security system, etc.

Ford really missed the mark on its LVB charging vs. OTA updates, IMHO, and it needs to do something to remedy the situation retroactively for Lightning owners.

*** Best to do this with your vehicle secured. Mine's locked in my garage when I'm leaving it "on."

Running in Accessory Mode serves no purpose.

With the vehicle running, lock the door. No garage is needed, no one can do anything without a fob or PaaK.

 

[Jim Lewis]

Running in Accessory Mode serves no purpose.

With the vehicle running, lock the door. No garage is needed, no one can do anything without a fob or PaaK.

With my truck plugged into my FCSP, I step on the brake pedal and push the power on button. The truck dash will announce the vehicle can't be fully powered on because it's plugged in, but also, you'll be in full-accessory mode (I turn off all accessories, AC, fan, radio, etc.). Whether at Ford.com or via an OBDII scanner, you'll see the LVB charging (main ECU 14.8v, LVB 14.6v in full-accessory mode launched as described). Have done it many times and charged my LVB well into the 90th percentiles of SOC. The other thing I see on the dash is the Plugged In indicator

and the highest truck charging port LED is pulsating (normally when plugged in with the truck off, there would be no charging port LEDs on). Since my truck is set to charge only between 2 am to 8 am and it's already close to its charging limit, I'm wondering if the LVB is being charged from the FCSP rather than the HVB (or through current provided to the HVB from the FCSP) but I haven't tried to make a careful measurement. Have just noticed that my HVB SOC doesn't drop very much, if at all, while charging my LVB in full-accessory mode with the truck plugged in. Why do it this way? I don't have to unplug the truck to run it full-on, then plug it in again when I'm done, and presumably I'm saving a modest amount of wear and tear if the cooling/heating system tries to condition the HVB and the motors for driving with the truck full-on.

You ignore the first sentence in my post footnote: " *** Best to do this with your vehicle secured." That doesn't exclude any method one might choose to secure their vehicle. Strange, you think my second sentence is a restriction rather than just my example of how I keep my truck secure.

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