Charge rate discrepancy

[mq019]

Hey guys - I'm charging on a ChargePoint home charger plugged into a 50A plug. Its showing 8.23KW for the charge session, but the FordPass app is showing charging at 7KW. Current SOC on the battery per FordPass is 43%. Ambient temp is around 42 and I just drove it for about 30 miles / 45 mins - so I don't imagine there's much battery heating/cooling happening, and definitely no interior heating/cooling going on.

Seems like there shouldn't be 1.23KW losses between the charger and the truck. I get that they wont read exactly the same, but 1.23KW seems a bit much to just chalk up to "losses" and differences in they way that each side is reading the power draw. Are my expectations unreasonable?

Anyone seeing similar or have any ideas why this would be happening?

Thanks!

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[Pioneer74]

Line loss, systems in the truck using some of the power, and the innacurate rounding of FordPass.

 

[flyct]

Ford pass reporting 7 kw I think could be as high as 7.99 Kw. It seems to drop the numbers after decimal.

I see the same thing on my Tesla charger at 48 amps. Tesla reports 11.7 kw and truck shows 10 Kws. When I do the math for kws added after a few hours it works out about 10.8 kws when the truck shows 10.

 

[The Weatherman]

Yes. I have been monitoring my Ford Pro charger and can confirm the differential is significant.

The monitor shows 14.4KW while the app shows 13KW.

I thought something was wrong with my charger, so I installed a monitor and found these results. The charger is set to 60amp internally.

 

[flyct]

I just looked at charge logs. I have 2 homes with Tesla chargers.

One is 60/48 amps and the other is 50/40 amps

the one with 50/40 amps added 20% (26 kwh) in 3 hrs 4 min that’s 8.59 per hour and it reported 8.
Tesla showed 9.4
FordPass showed 8
Math showed 8.59

The one with 60/48 amps added to 42% in 5 hrs 3 min. That’s ,10.825 kW/hr and FordPass reported 10.

So FordPass seems to only report whole number before the decimal Point.

 

[Zprime29]

Jumping on the bandwagon of Ford's horrible truncated reporting of charge rate. It's very annoying.

 

[mq019]

Thanks for the info everyone - I'll do the math later based on energy added, and time spent charging to see what the actual charge rate is (hopefully FordPass gets those numbers right).

With no heating/cooling happening on the truck side (no pumps/fans running), and no screens on, (truck is off), I could see maybe up to 500w being used by systems in the truck, and losses between charger and truck, so hopefully I my calculated charge rate later comes out around 7.75KW.

Its absolutely nuts that FordPass wouldn't display the decimal points - its not like the data isn't there, or they don't have the screen real-estate. Its just poor UI development.

 

[TaxmanHog]

Fordpass doesn't represent to the gross energy going to the truck, it seems to represent the NET energy stored in the pack.

Example: of my current charging session in process, FCSP is set to 80amps @ 240V Ideal 19.2KW, reality per my Emporia energy monitor is that the truck is drawing 18KW gross, while FP says only 16KW is flowing into the battery.

The cumulative energy sent so far is 21.2 KWH, but the FP session log says 18.4 KWH

 

[mq019]

Fordpass doesn't represent to the gross energy going to the truck, it seems to represent the NET energy stored in the pack.

Example: of my current charging session in process, FCSP is set to 80amps @ 240V Ideal 19.2KW, reality per my Emporia energy monitor is that the truck is drawing 18KW gross, while FP says only 16KW is flowing into the battery.

The cumulative energy sent so far is 21.2 KWH, but the FP session log says 18.4 KWH

So that makes sense, assuming that some kind of heating/cooling is happening for the battery, then its using most of that 3KW for that. If not, something must be wrong because its nuts to "lose" almost 3KW in an hour that's being sent from the charger to the truck, but not making it to the battery.

That's exactly what I was trying to find out - I expect a certain amount of loss, but a powered down truck that's not doing any kind of active thermal control of the battery shouldn't be anywhere near those numbers should it?

 

[TaxmanHog]

Now that the charging session just finished, with ambient temps in my garage at 47°
The truck says it stored 31 KWH of traction energy DCV, while my FCSP said it passed 33.645 KWH of ACV of energy into the truck.

Emporia indicates 59.9 KWH total for the day, this includes an early morning session at 5-8 AM of 26.1 KWH {includes 15 minutes of remote start cabin warming}, leaving 33.8 KWH for this afternoon. Early morning temp were unseasonably mild upper 30's with rain today.

This is a chart summarizing recent charging sessions and the data points from FOrdpass, FCSP Connected Charge Station Insights and my Emporia energy logger, this chart is "trying" determine the losses or variances between the three data points and to detect if there has been a change to the values being reported in Fordpass {or not changed} or if there has been an expansion in the available battery capacity i.e. unlocked reserve overhead.

At the moment it's not conclusive, I need to sample more data especially in moderate temps to eliminate the battery conditioning / warming that might be involved at this point in the season in southern New England.

 

[mq019]

So if anyone cares here's what I came up with.

8 hours, 21 minutes got me 47%

If my math is right, that comes out to 63.5kw (47% of 135)

That comes out to 7.65kw (63.5/8.3) as the average charge rate, so about 580w "loss" (8.23-7.65).

I feel like that makes sense - it's less than half of the 1.23kw difference between the charger and FordPass.



If my math is wrong, let me know - definitely not my strong suit.

 

[Pioneer74]

So if anyone cares here's what I came up with.

8 hours, 21 minutes got me 47%

If my math is right, that comes out to 63.5kw (47% of 135)

That comes out to 7.65kw (63.5/8.3) as the average charge rate, so about 580w "loss" (8.23-7.65).

I feel like that makes sense - it's less than half of the 1.23kw difference between the charger and FordPass.



If my math is wrong, let me know - definitely not my strong suit.

The battery is 131 kW. Not 135.

 

[Maquis]

Thanks for the info everyone - I'll do the math later based on energy added, and time spent charging to see what the actual charge rate is (hopefully FordPass gets those numbers right).

With no heating/cooling happening on the truck side (no pumps/fans running), and no screens on, (truck is off), I could see maybe up to 500w being used by systems in the truck, and losses between charger and truck, so hopefully I my calculated charge rate later comes out around 7.75KW.

Its absolutely nuts that FordPass wouldn't display the decimal points - its not like the data isn't there, or they don't have the screen real-estate. Its just poor UI development.

The inherent losses in the Charger converting AC to DC are likely in the 7 - 12% range. Most people use 10% as a rule of thumb for overall L2 charging losses.

 

[TaxmanHog]

The trucks circulator pump does run periodically to balance the heat generated in the AC to DC inverter dumping it into the battery pack, cold season strategy.

In warmer climates the AC chiller circuit will activate to extract excess heat from the inverter and pack dumping it to atmosphere.

 

[mb0220]

Ford pass reporting 7 kw I think could be as high as 7.99 Kw. It seems to drop the numbers after decimal.

I see the same thing on my Tesla charger at 48 amps. Tesla reports 11.7 kw and truck shows 10 Kws. When I do the math for kws added after a few hours it works out about 10.8 kws when the truck shows 10.

The rounding is annoying, and that's not the only place it happens. If you monitor your efficiency in "This Trip" on the dash and on the center screen you'll see that they are often different by 0.1 mi/kWh. So whether they're rounding or truncating, they can't even do it consistently from one display to the other. Maybe I'm OCD, but as a data person this hurts my teeth because it's such an easy thing to fix.

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