Any benefit to occasional 100% charge?

[WRSNH]

I normally plug in each night and charge to 85% (thank you, @MickeyAO ). Yesterday I set the truck to charge to 100% for a trip but stopped at 99% so we could leave. It got me wondering: Is there any benefit to charging all the way to the “full” 100% every once in a while? Voltage balancing?

Possibly not relevant, but my phone is set to charge to 80% routinely but every once in a while charges to 100% because Apple decided it should. Just made me wonder.

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[csukoh78]

No, and charging to 100% should be avoided unless you're about to go on a long road trip or about to haul/tow.

With the warmer months coming up, it's best to charge to 70–80% and less if your truck is going to be in very hot temperatures. This gives the electrons "room" for excitability due to increase thermal temperatures and reduces electrolyte stress.

 

[adoublee]

Charging to 100% is not charging to 100% of cell capacity. Ford builds an inaccessible area of capacity at the top of charge. So don't anticipate a top end cell balancing to come from it.

 

[Grease Lightning]

Is there any benefit to charging all the way to the “full” 100% every once in a while

Yes, more range

and that whole balancing the cells thing…..

 

[Grease Lightning]

That’s an odd statement when so many of us that use car scanner have seen that it does still balance the cells, maybe not fully as you anticipated but more the. The BMS normally is able to do.

So yes, you should occasionally still balance the BMS and the cells.

 

[Zprime29]

Since I road trip 4-5 times a year, I charge to 100% 4-5 times a year. I don't worry about it beyond that.

 

[Mmiketa]

Charging to 100% is not charging to 100% of cell capacity. Ford builds an inaccessible area of capacity at the top of charge. So don't anticipate a top end cell balancing to come from it.

Some people say that you can charge to 100% because there is extra capacity. Others say that you can drive past 0% because there is extra capacity...it can't work both ways. Do we know if we actively charge that capacity or if it's left empty so we don't charge to an actual 100% ever.

 

[Grease Lightning]

Some people say that you can charge to 100% because there is extra capacity. Others say that you can drive past 0% because there is extra capacity...it can't work both ways. Do we know if we actively charge that capacity or if it's left empty so we don't charge to an actual 100% ever.

Yes there is top end capacity. I have seen my Lightning charge 1-2% above 100% in CamScanner when I am allowing it to balance the cells.

There is some low end, that yes is charged, but from OutofSpec’s experience, it is not much and if the BMS’ cell tracking is off you can end up waiting for a tow truck.

So I wouldn’t expect to have a “buffer” below 0%.

 

[adoublee]

Some people say that you can charge to 100% because there is extra capacity. Others say that you can drive past 0% because there is extra capacity...it can't work both ways. Do we know if we actively charge that capacity or if it's left empty so we don't charge to an actual 100% ever.

It can work both ways. Round numbers example:

In a 100kWh pack the manufacture could call 5% SOC 0%, and 90% SOC 100%. Now there is 85% or 85kWh available to the user. The user will never charge to true 100%, at least until the battery pack has degraded to a full capacity of 90 kWh. Draining below true 5% might be somewhat possible if the vehicle was allowed to sit for a very long period of time after getting to apparent 0%, but it shouldn't happen with a vehicle that is not abandoned. The 85%/85kWh in this example is analogous to the 131 kWh usable capacity of the ER Lightning. I am not saying there is 15% hidden, or that it is 5% below and 10% above - those are just examples.

 

[SmoothJ]

This has been debated many times, but for myself I find the sweet spot is 90%. This gets me where I need to go and back (ie work), but it also allows fluff to take care of any extra things along the way. On average I only use 15-20% (weekdays) for work during the week, and ~40-50% (weekends).

 

[Mmiketa]

It can work both ways. Round numbers example:

In a 100kWh pack the manufacture could call 5% SOC 0%, and 90% SOC 100%. Now there is 85% or 85kWh available to the user. The user will never charge to true 100%, at least until the battery pack has degraded to a full capacity of 90 kWh. Draining below true 5% might be somewhat possible if the vehicle was allowed to sit for a very long period of time after getting to apparent 0%, but it shouldn't happen with a vehicle that is not abandoned. The 85%/85kWh in this example is analogous to the 131 kWh usable capacity of the ER Lightning. I am not saying there is 15% hidden, or that it is 5% below and 10% above - those are just examples.

I am just trying to say that I do not know how they are doing it and at this point all I have seen are assumptions. I see your point, but I don't think it adds any value unless we know how they are doing it.

 

[Hammick]

I used to be a big battery Nazi. Would put timers on vacuum, mower/blower batteries, Sonos speakers, etc. so they wouldn't charge to 100%. After a couple years of getting mediocre run times I decided to charge to 100% on these batteries and it makes a huge difference in run time.

I still don't charge our Lightning to 100% unless leaving for a long road trip. It's been charged to 100% more than most and gets used daily to power our house. Done a bunch of DCFC. Still at 97.5% SOC and coming up on two years old.

We have a camper with four Battleborn 100ah batteries in series. They warranty their batteries for 10 years charging to 100% every time. In fact they recommend charging to 100% every two weeks even if not using the batteries so they stay balanced.

I still won't store Li batteries at 100% like Battleborn recommends but I'm slowly giving up my Nazi ways.

 

[adoublee]

I am just trying to say that I do not know how they are doing it and at this point all I have seen are assumptions. I see your point, but I don't think it adds any value unless we know how they are doing it.

How they are doing what, top balancing?

The reality is they probably don't need to top balance as I believe this is used to "unlock" capacity so that the cells that fully charge first don't stop the cells that haven't fully charged from getting fully charged. If they are already maintaining top buffer, they are not trying to get a hold of the capacity locked up in imbalance. Once the cells degrade sufficiently, that capacity becomes desirable but also comes in reach of top balancing when the vehicle fully charges.

So maybe it is actually desirable to fully charge the vehicle occasionally after it is 10 years old or has a couple hundred thousand miles on it, in order to keep as much of the remaining battery pack useful as possible.

 

[Basis0439]

I firmly believe that charging to 100% on AC is completely fine to do, even on a semi-regular basis.

The idea that the battery will degrade by charging it once and a while to 100% is absurd and I have never read a single study/anecdote which has demonstrated that charging a car battery to 100% harms it to a noticeable degree.

 

[Maquis]

I firmly believe that charging to 100% on AC is completely fine to do, even on a semi-regular basis.

The idea that the battery will degrade by charging it once and a while to 100% is absurd and I have never read a single study/anecdote which has demonstrated that charging a car battery to 100% harms it to a noticeable degree.

@MickeyAO can lead us to water, but alas, he can’t make us drink!

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