DCFC station cost

[bmwhitetx]

I worked for an electric utility for 35 years and very familiar with rate structures. It is very easy for a very low load-factor commercial customer to see average rates of over a dollar per kWh.

Small churches could particularly get hit hard in that they would run AC a few hours each Sunday and set a peak demand that followed them for 12 months. Time-of Use demand rates that excluded Sunday demand solves that.

The charging station above is served by Duke Energy Indiana. I looked at their rate structure for commercial secondary. They have a customer charge of $24.54, a demand charge of $21.04/kW, and energy of 5.33 cents/kWh. The single DCFC charger of 62 kW output probably hits 70 kW with conversion losses at the meter. And it needs to only run for 15 minutes to set that demand.

So in a single month the customer charge ($24.54) plus demand charge (70 kW x $21.04=$1473) is a fixed cost of about $1500.

If the station is only used for 20 hours that's an energy usage of 1400 kWh (70 kW x 20 hours). And the energy charge is a measly $75 (1400 x.0533). But the fixed customer and demand cost mean a total bill of $1575.

That's $1.12 per kWh.

There are lots of loads that can experience this: warning sirens, emergency flood pumps, Little League/soccer lights, etc. Sometime utilities will create low-load factor rates to help these customers out.

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[Flashback858]

I just had an interesting conversation with the owner of the Toyota dealership where I’m currently charging. The dealership has a single ChargePoint 62kW station. The cost to charge here is $.85/kWh. He said that their electricity cost is seventy some cents per kWh, and in addition to that ChargePoint charges him 10% of the cost of each charging session. He said that their $.85/kWh price is essentially at the break even point. And that of course doesn’t even factor in the cost of the equipment, which he said was around $100k including installation.
He also mentioned that Toyota strongly encouraged the DCFC installation, but did not require it. He owns a Hyundai dealership too, where DCFC installation is mandated by the manufacturer.
Just thought that it was interesting to hear about charging costs from a different perspective.

Thanks for the info

 

[hturnerfamily]

I would suggest, though, that while you can 'assume' calculations, it would make absolutely NO sense for anyone, any business, anywhere, to INSTALL a DC Fast Charging unit if your calculation assumptions were in play - no sense at all. I also imagine that if a owner or provider knows this 'electric load rate and charge' up front, they would have NEVER installed such a large electrical load unit that they would then 'lose' money on. I can only imagine that none of that is the case in this situation, or ANYWHERE a DC Fast Charger is installed. Utilities want to sell electricity, they are not in the business of trying to make DC Fast Charging a 'loss' for businesses, and the industry, that want to promote EVs and EV driving. I would commit that they also have quite a few 'rate plans' for various situations and locations, depending on the need.
Georgia Power and Other EMC and 'branded' Mercedes Chargepoint locations in our area are 'fixed' prices, although you can see below that my experience shows that 'how' they charge can be TOTALLY DIFFERENT, and result in TOTALLY DIFFERENT end charges for the customer.
EVgo, though, I have seen use the 'time of day' price rates - where the afternoon to evening hours are at the top of the price range, if that's when you happen to 'need' charging. That 'may' be because of their internal rate structure, or it simply could be that EVgo uses this to drive revenue and help to 'limit' overusage and wait times - if drivers know these hours, they may tend to try to use DC Fast Charging at lower rate hours, etc.
I hear that WENDY'S may be choosing to go with a similar 'pricing time-of-use' structure, too... crazy as that may seem.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
btw, my recent stops for Charging, with a huge pricing difference between the two, looks like this:

Energy Rate (Georgia Power Utility 125kw shared)
24m 55s @ $0.25/min = $ 6.23 Total charge. Total KWH provided: 40.393
THIS UNIT CHARGES BY THE MINUTE, no matter what 'speed' you happen to get.
This worked out very well in this situation, cost wise.

Energy Rate (BRMEMC Utility 125kw shared)
26m 00s @ $0.42/kWh = $ 17.01 Total charge. Total KWH provided: 40.500
THIS UNIT CHARGES BY THE KWH, no matter how 'slow' it might be.
This DID NOT work out very well for us, at least 'compared' to the previous stop, cost wise, even though the AMOUNT of charge is almost identical, and the TIME was almost identical.

 

[RickLightning]

and,

along those lines...

we stopped at a Chargepoint 125kw yesterday at a ChicFilA... paid $6 for 25kw
...these are units hosted by Georgia Power
we later stopped at a Chargepoint 125kw at a 'city parking lot'... paid $17 for the same 25kw
...these are units hosted by the local EMC


wow : /

I have to ask. After paying 24 cents per kW at the first location, why would you willingly pay 68 cents at the second one?

Yesterday we went to Michigan's Spring game with our son and granddaughter who flew up for it (crazy). Could have charged at a level 2 that charges a hair more than home charging. No reason to, so I didn't.

 

[carys98]

Is one brand of charger only using batteries or any that never use them?

Some Electrify America stations actually have Tesla battery systems. Tesla and others make grid level storage systems that can be integrated into any charger system or used to level demand or provide backup for any other load.

Freewire chargers all use batteries that are built into the dispenser. The picture shows the inside of a Freewire charger that was being installed in eastern NC. The red arrow is pointing at the batteries in the lower portion of the cabinet. The blue arrow is the power coming in and it appears to be just one phase of 208V circuit coming from the gas station so it’s probably only pulling 40-50 kW but it can deliver 200 kW.

 

[2sleep]

Wow, good info for us power charging geeks!
Thanks!

 

[GDN]

A lot of good info on how this station likely didn't cost what the dealer says, but also proof showing that none of this is really cheap, like a home charger and home charging rates.

The bottom line is without a LOT of volume none of these companies are going to make money for a long time considering the install costs and the cost of electricity.

To each their own, but for the most part, if you don't have a way to charge at home for the majority of your charging, an EV is not going to save you much money over the pump. That doesn't mean they aren't still great vehicles and they are fun to drive.

 

[hturnerfamily]

I have to ask. After paying 24 cents per kW at the first location, why would you willingly pay 68 cents at the second one?

Yesterday we went to Michigan's Spring game with our son and granddaughter who flew up for it (crazy). Could have charged at a level 2 that charges a hair more than home charging. No reason to, so I didn't.

You don't 'have' to ask, because with few DC Fast Charging options in many areas, you don't have a choice.

but, the other side of the equation is simply lack of CLARITY about how your are charged EVEN IF you wanted to 'compare' one versus the other... the Chargepoint app certainly doesn't help, as it many times states 'per kwh', when you are actually charged by the minute, or vice versa. The units themselves also are hard to ascertain their 'real' charging type, as the second unit stated '$5.25 per 15 minutes', as though THIS was their charging profile, and yet, NO, it wasn't.

As stated, and while it is annoying, we really don't have much 'choice' in these things, anyway - it's not like you can just 'pass by' a DC Fast Charger when there is no other option.

 

[RickLightning]

You don't 'have' to ask, because with few DC Fast Charging options in many areas, you don't have a choice.

but, the other side of the equation is simply lack of CLARITY about how your are charged EVEN IF you wanted to 'compare' one versus the other... the Chargepoint app certainly doesn't help, as it many times states 'per kwh', when you are actually charged by the minute, or vice versa. The units themselves also are hard to ascertain their 'real' charging type, as the second unit stated '$5.25 per 15 minutes', as though THIS was their charging profile, and yet, NO, it wasn't.

As stated, and while it is annoying, we really don't have much 'choice' in these things, anyway - it's not like you can just 'pass by' a DC Fast Charger when there is no other option.

If you already knew what I type below, sorry.

On ChargePoint, they calculate the rate for that summary. You can change the time period. And it is an estimate.

But if you simply click on the charger, it shows the actual rate, which is 42 cents per minute. I always ignore the estimate.

 

[dajohn3]

I call BS on the ~$0.70/kWH. Remember, you are talking to a car dealer...
https://www.eia.gov/electricity/monthly/epm_table_grapher.php?t=epmt_5_6_a

I agree with you because the cost per KWH for a business is 8.85 cents while we pay, residential customers, 13 cents per KWH here in Texas. Price gouging Is what is happening in the EV charging stations because the costs of the electericity and depreciated cost for the charging stations initial investment do not add up. Electrify America just added another 8 cents per KWH to their charging stations and they haven't even fixed the broken ones so where is the money going?

 

[John Becker]

I used to have range anxiety. Then it became "will the damn thing work" anxiety. Now, I have cost anxiety.
If I can't make the round trip on a single charge from home, I drive ICE. Gasoline is a lot cheaper than DCFC.

 

[davehu]

I used to have range anxiety. Then it became "will the damn thing work" anxiety. Now, I have cost anxiety.
If I can't make the round trip on a single charge from home, I drive ICE. Gasoline is a lot cheaper than DCFC.

yep! especially when our lightnings are getting around 2 m/kw. Charging at home (Arkansas) I pay only 11 cents/kwh. compared to the 20 mpg I was getting on my chevy avalanche it amounts to 1/4th the cost. big savings. DC fast charging in Arkansas run 40-60 cents per kwh making it way more expensive than gasoline.

 

[mrau]

compared to the 28 mpg I was getting on my chevy avalanche

28 mpg on Avalanche ??? My Chevy Avalanche got about 18 mpg.... even less in the winter.

 

[Maquis]

28 mpg on Avalanche ??? My Chevy Avalanche got about 18 mpg.... even less in the winter.

There’s no way his Lightning uses 2 kWh per mile either.

 

[2sleep]

I bet he meant to say 2 m/Kw which is about what mine averages.

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