Easy way to safely access backup power for home and free (for some PG&E customers)

[dmd3home]

Thanks WSH68 for all the info. I really didn't believe it could work, but after your post here I did manage to get on the PG&E list for the Generlink program. I was surprised when they showed up at my house within a month, and, as you said, had it installed within a few minutes. But, also as you said, I had no way to test it. But, sure enough, a few days ago an animal of some kind (so PG&E says) took out a line and power was out. And again as you said, I just backed up the Lightning to my meter, opened the house main breaker, shut down my solar, plugged in to the Pro Power Onboard and to the Generlink, closed the house main breaker and powered the entire house!!!! It only took a few minutes. Another great feature that I didn't realize was there was that, when the power came back it auto transferred back to the grid.....very cool.

The "outage" was only for about 3 hours, but was a great test. I only lost 5 miles of range in that time. Of course this was the middle of the day and if I could have kept the solar going it wouldn't have used any of the Lightning battery. That's the next challenge....to figure out how to keep the solar going. Perhaps I could switch in the solar which would activate its microinverters and get them producing and then I could also start charging the truck at a low amperage setting. I believe the solar would dominate at a slightly higher voltage, power the house and charge the truck......all grid free! The rub really comes though if the truck then gets fully charged and there's nowhere for the solar to go. That's when solar likes the grid.....it's always there to accept excess power.

Another concern I found during this test was, as has been mentioned here before, you have to leave the Lightning "on" when using Pro Power....that's crazy! At the time you want to conserve your battery, the truck insists on having all the screens etc. on. Why? Additionally I discovered something else.... the truck ventilation fan would not turn off fully. In fact, I now realize that the fan is always running at its lowest speed....it can't be fully shut off....not just when using ProPower ....all the time the truck is on! I don't know if this is a problem with my particular vehicle or if it's with all of them. This is quite annoying on a cold morning and you have cold air blowing on you that you can't turn off! Am I the only one with this problem??

Again, thanks Wsh68 for turning us on to this simple solution!

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[GDN]

Thanks WSH68 for all the info. I really didn't believe it could work, but after your post here I did manage to get on the PG&E list for the Generlink program. I was surprised when they showed up at my house within a month, and, as you said, had it installed within a few minutes. But, also as you said, I had no way to test it. But, sure enough, a few days ago an animal of some kind (so PG&E says) took out a line and power was out. And again as you said, I just backed up the Lightning to my meter, opened the house main breaker, shut down my solar, plugged in to the Pro Power Onboard and to the Generlink, closed the house main breaker and powered the entire house!!!! It only took a few minutes. Another great feature that I didn't realize was there was that, when the power came back it auto transferred back to the grid.....very cool.

The "outage" was only for about 3 hours, but was a great test. I only lost 5 miles of range in that time. Of course this was the middle of the day and if I could have kept the solar going it wouldn't have used any of the Lightning battery. That's the next challenge....to figure out how to keep the solar going. Perhaps I could switch in the solar which would activate its microinverters and get them producing and then I could also start charging the truck at a low amperage setting. I believe the solar would dominate at a slightly higher voltage, power the house and charge the truck......all grid free! The rub really comes though if the truck then gets fully charged and there's nowhere for the solar to go. That's when solar likes the grid.....it's always there to accept excess power.

Another concern I found during this test was, as has been mentioned here before, you have to leave the Lightning "on" when using Pro Power....that's crazy! At the time you want to conserve your battery, the truck insists on having all the screens etc. on. Why? Additionally I discovered something else.... the truck ventilation fan would not turn off fully. In fact, I now realize that the fan is always running at its lowest speed....it can't be fully shut off....not just when using ProPower ....all the time the truck is on! I don't know if this is a problem with my particular vehicle or if it's with all of them. This is quite annoying on a cold morning and you have cold air blowing on you that you can't turn off! Am I the only one with this problem??

Again, thanks Wsh68 for turning us on to this simple solution!

A couple of quick notes - the PGE device is not a Generlink - it is their proprietary device - they are different. Also if you read though the material there is a test routine for the device.

 

[Maquis]

Thanks WSH68 for all the info. I really didn't believe it could work, but after your post here I did manage to get on the PG&E list for the Generlink program. I was surprised when they showed up at my house within a month, and, as you said, had it installed within a few minutes. But, also as you said, I had no way to test it. But, sure enough, a few days ago an animal of some kind (so PG&E says) took out a line and power was out. And again as you said, I just backed up the Lightning to my meter, opened the house main breaker, shut down my solar, plugged in to the Pro Power Onboard and to the Generlink, closed the house main breaker and powered the entire house!!!! It only took a few minutes. Another great feature that I didn't realize was there was that, when the power came back it auto transferred back to the grid.....very cool.

The "outage" was only for about 3 hours, but was a great test. I only lost 5 miles of range in that time. Of course this was the middle of the day and if I could have kept the solar going it wouldn't have used any of the Lightning battery. That's the next challenge....to figure out how to keep the solar going. Perhaps I could switch in the solar which would activate its microinverters and get them producing and then I could also start charging the truck at a low amperage setting. I believe the solar would dominate at a slightly higher voltage, power the house and charge the truck......all grid free! The rub really comes though if the truck then gets fully charged and there's nowhere for the solar to go. That's when solar likes the grid.....it's always there to accept excess power.
!

You’re not going to be able to have solar while on Lightning backup. At least not without some more sophisticated equipment. There’s nowhere for the excess solar to go, even if the truck isn’t fully charged - ProPower is just an inverter - no bidirectional capability.

 

[hturnerfamily]

so, I dove deep into what it would mean to try to have some solar power output, even while the grid is down: with microinverters, my choice of how to do my own solar, you will always need them to have 'power' in order for them to then OUTPUT power.

the simple answer is: your LIGHTNING ProPower

so, for instance, even if you use something like the GenerLink, or PG&E's version of it, you are using the ProPower output to then 'power' the home...yes. That will work just fine. But, for the
MicroInverters to continue providing any SOLAR output, you would also then need to simply provide an external NEMA 14-50 outlet, maybe even the SAME one you use for your truck, for your power to your microinveters.
Now, yes, this gets a little complicated, as you would need your own method or design of how to 'plug in' those solar panel/microinverters to this outlet, but that is what they need to 'see' power and continue output. A length of 8awg SOOW cable with the appropriate male and female plug ends would work, depending on the length of the run.

One method would be to also use a 240v 'splitter' Adapter: meaning that your truck is providing it's 240v 30amp output to TWO sources, your Generlink, AND your MicroInverters, at the same time.

Now, your solar output continues, and takes some of the need of the LIGHTNING's own ProPower output for the home, as long as, of course, the SUN is out, and the solar panels are producing as much as is currently being used by the home. The ProPower then only 'supplements' that need, when clouds arrive, or nighttime comes.


Having said all that, and while I researched and found these answers that would work for me, I have failed to see the otherwise expensive need for solar panels and MicroInverters - I just can't make the upfront cost coincide with the long term benefits. Georgia Power also does not provide net-metering, and unless you are producing enough power to offset your 'middle of the day' heavy needs, if you have any, you are just otherwise spinning your wheels. There is no place for the solar to go. I even thought that it would be a good 'option' if the grid went down and I need to charge my truck, but, alas, developing ENOUGH 240v CONSTANT output for MANY CONTINUOUS hours is not really a reality.

My LIGHTNING's ProPower will remain my 'off grid' outage saviour, when and if ever needed. Yes, you could laud that without a large SOC at the time of an outage, you might suffer, eventually, but those are not really 'real world' problems in central/west Georgia. On the coast, I might have a different view, etc.

 

[dmd3home]

A couple of quick notes - the PGE device is not a Generlink - it is their proprietary device - they are different. Also if you read though the material there is a test routine for the device.

OK, thanks.....yes, I realize it's not actually a "Generlink" but didn't know what else to call it. But I wasn't even here when PG&E installed it and the only info I got was a simple, pictorial, how to connect pamphlet. I am curious about the "test routine" you describe (not that I really need it as the short outage was my test...but would love to have it for a reference. Thanks

 

[dmd3home]

You’re not going to be able to have solar while on Lightning backup. At least not without some more sophisticated equipment. There’s nowhere for the excess solar to go, even if the truck isn’t fully charged - ProPower is just an inverter - no bidirectional capability.

I would be using ProPower only to feed my main panel...of course not trying to backfeed through it...yes, it's not bi-directional. But, because it's feeding my main panel, I can then plug in my Emporia charger and plug in the Lightning to charge. Since the solar also feeds the main panel and requires a small amount from the panel to feed the microinverters, I can close in the solar breaker and since now, they will both be in phase, the solar can now dominate the panel, powering the house and, with any excess, charge the truck!
This seems possible. But, if the Lightning then becomes fully charged, there's now nowhere for the excess solar power to go. You could add some circuitry to shut the solar off when the truck is fully charged, or shunt excess power to....I don't know...a heating element or something.

 

[GDN]

OK, thanks.....yes, I realize it's not actually a "Generlink" but didn't know what else to call it. But I wasn't even here when PG&E installed it and the only info I got was a simple, pictorial, how to connect pamphlet. I am curious about the "test routine" you describe (not that I really need it as the short outage was my test...but would love to have it for a reference. Thanks

Well - I have confused the two devices. Its the Generlink I had found the test routine for.
https://www.f150lightningforum.com/...ree-for-some-pg-e-customers.16910/post-368485

 

[Maquis]

I would be using ProPower only to feed my main panel...of course not trying to backfeed through it...yes, it's not bi-directional. But, because it's feeding my main panel, I can then plug in my Emporia charger and plug in the Lightning to charge. Since the solar also feeds the main panel and requires a small amount from the panel to feed the microinverters, I can close in the solar breaker and since now, they will both be in phase, the solar can now dominate the panel, powering the house and, with any excess, charge the truck!
This seems possible. But, if the Lightning then becomes fully charged, there's now nowhere for the excess solar power to go. You could add some circuitry to shut the solar off when the truck is fully charged, or shunt excess power to....I don't know...a heating element or something.

I was thinking about that scenario. It seemed plausible at first, but I doubt all the bits would sync correctly. The Emporia would need to send power to charger before the solar inverter faulted when (what it thinks is) the grid doesn’t take any power. It would be an interesting experiment, but expensive if it doesn’t work.

There was a member on here who did solar installs for a living who could probably tell us in 5 seconds wether or not it would work, but he hasn’t been on here for more than a year. I think he got tired of people who didn’t know crap about anything electrical challenging him when he gave advice.

 

[dmd3home]

To William...Thunterfamily,
Thanks for your comments. Yes, everybody's situation is different and my thoughts are theoretical and simplified.....but possible??

My main home is on the central coast of CA, but I also spend a lot of time in yes, rural Georgia where I have 4 grandchildren!
But here in CA, with PG&E, we have time of use billing and can be paying as much as $0.43 to $0.50 per kWh. So I put in solar long ago. Since I already have it, I'd like to be able to use it. Thus far, when the grid goes down, so does my solar as it requires a small amount of power for its microinverters. It was cool to be able to use the Lightning as my backup during our recent outage. But, I was unable to use my solar (which, by itself could power pretty much my whole house). So, to be able to use both the Lightning AND the solar would be ideal.
The PG&E transfer switch device powers my entire main panel! They stipulate though, in the instructions, to switch off the solar (if you have it) feeder breaker in your panel before hooking up your backup device (they assume a generator). But, because my whole panel is now powered up via the Lightning, I can plug in the Lightning to charge using my Emporia charger. I would have to watch loads carefully, but now could close in the solar feeder breaker. Because the solar microinverters are getting power from the Lightning, all would be in phase and the solar would now pick up all the loads and be charging the Lightning. When the solar output dropped because of clouds or darkness, the Lightning would pick up the load. Again, this is strictly theoretical at this point and in writing this now I see a flaw.
There always needs to be a path for any excess solar to go. If the house loads and the Lightning charge rate are less than the solar power produced, you're screwed and will likely ruin your solar setup. However, if all your loads are high, more will be drawn from the Lightning battery as necessary. That might be good. You might even add artificial loads. Also, if someone made a variable charger that would vary the charge rate based on the power available..... Hmmmm???
One fundamental question though is can you use ProPower and charge the Lightning at the same time. I should easily be able to test that. Any other thoughts? I'll continue to research.

 

[dmd3home]

Thanks for sharing, but I don't see how this test can work. My understanding is that the generator (or Lightning) connector isn't even active unless the transfer switch has activated, which can only happen when grid power goes away. There is no user way to make the grid power go away as it's all on the PG&E side of the meter. Am I reading something wrong in the test? Thanks

 

[dmd3home]

To Wsh68 and frautumn,

Yes, PG&E has a list of acceptable generators and fortunately mine was on the list...so I was approved. But, as was stated, no one ever confirms your generator....not PG&E or the installer. Also of note, I did see a list of compatible generators elsewhere that specifically listed the Lightning as NOT compatible. But we know it seems to be as it worked fine for Wsh68 and me. Also of note, I was not home when the installer came. It took him all of ten minutes to install! He left the cord and a hook up instruction sheet on my front porch. Perhaps they've changed the supplied cord since Wsh68 got his, because mine fit just fine into the ProPower outlet (no adapter or smaller plug needed) when I used mine last week for our small outage. I was very pleased with it all! Now my Lightning IS my backup power source and with no cost to me! Perfect!

 

[Simpso57]

FYI. Pg&e lists the F-150 as a BPTM (backup power transfer meter) as an approved “generator”. they may have always listed it but I don’t remember seeing it when I filled out my application so I applied with our Yamaha generator to qualify.

I can't find this particular approval list. I download the spreadsheet on this page, and it doesn't list the F150:

https://www.pge.com/en/outages-and-...gram.html#tabs-60f688bab6-item-3e8eade954-tab

 

[Wsh68]

I can't find this particular approval list. I download the spreadsheet on this page, and it doesn't list the F150:

https://www.pge.com/en/outages-and-...gram.html#tabs-60f688bab6-item-3e8eade954-tab

PG&E is a pretty massive organization. Who knows what corporate cluster could be going on internally…. if I were in your situation, I’d not apply using the Lightning (I didn’t). I applied as did my neighbors and my mom using my Yamaha generator that is on the list. There was zero ”prove it!” or proof required and the electrician that installed it Never even alerted me to him arriving, installing or how I would use it. I just happened to be home when he did it all and asked a bunch of questions. My Mom was not and he just left the directions and her cable on her entryway. One big caveat. If you sign up for this backup system, you may be eliminating your chance for a free Tesla PowerWall. A few of our neighbors snagged that freebi. I’m pretty sure if they offer that program again that I’m disqualified. My $.02 and here‘s my generator I haven’t fired up in 2 years now. (fuel drained and probably going on Craigslist next year).

 

[Maquis]

One fundamental question though is can you use ProPower and charge the Lightning at the same time?

I haven’t tried, but I’m pretty sure the answer is yes.

 

[Simpso57]

PG&E is a pretty massive organization. Who knows what corporate cluster could be going on internally…. if I were in your situation, I’d not apply using the Lightning (I didn’t). I applied as did my neighbors and my mom using my Yamaha generator that is on the list. There was zero ”prove it!” or proof required and the electrician that installed it Never even alerted me to him arriving, installing or how I would use it. I just happened to be home when he did it all and asked a bunch of questions. My Mom was not and he just left the directions and her cable on her entryway. One big caveat. If you sign up for this backup system, you may be eliminating your chance for a free Tesla PowerWall. A few of our neighbors snagged that freebi. I’m pretty sure if they offer that program again that I’m disqualified. My $.02 and here‘s my generator I haven’t fired up in 2 years now. (fuel drained and probably going on Craigslist next year).

Understood. I have a generator so it shouldn't be a problem. Also, I do have powerwalls so we will see if that disqualifies me. I didn't see anything that did. But I could be wrong.

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