Has anyone tested ‘24 heat pump?

[Jamchampnate]

EPA estimates aren’t done in cold weather.

but they do factor it in-

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[srvethelord]

Is there something saying only the SR are getting the heat pump and not ERs? I have a '22 ER and in the northern VA winters here I can literally watch the range decrease by (almost) the second when using the heater. Using the A/C barely makes a dent in the range. If I understand correctly, the heat pump is simply blowing the hot air created by the A/C into the cabin. I see this as making a huge difference in winter range.

 

[BennyTheBeaver]

but they do factor it in-

Which is why something as simple as adding heated seats to the Pro in 2023 allowed them to claim 10 extra miles in their EPA range for all SR trims (the other trims already had heated seats, and already were efficient to the tune of 240 miles in stead of 230).

Adding heated seats to the Pro was a +10 miles of stated range (purely due to efficiency in colder conditions). Adding Heat Pumps has been +0 miles of stated range (so far, it is very possible Ford just hasn't retested them or had them recertified yet and were using the more conservative numbers...I have no idea how that works).

Just attempting to put things in perspective.

 

[Nklem]

They DO Exist..24’s on the Lot Bangor Maine…/

 

[Kev12345]

that new ford logo POPS

 

[TaxmanHog]

They DO Exist..24’s on the Lot Bangor Maine…/

Did they explain the $2000 ADM in the current market????

 

[Amps]

Did they explain the $2000 ADM in the current market????

Nice catch. They did it the dirty way, too. They 'forwarded' the ADM along with the MSRP from the "manufacturer's label.'

 

[Nklem]

Nice catch. They did it the dirty way, too. They 'forwarded' the ADM along with the MSRP from the "manufacturer's label.'

This is a no ADM dealer. I am sure that dealer tag to the left was from the "old" higher window stickers with the higher price (the stickers were replaced with the new MSRP). They do not charge ADM on anything there....

 

[Jake24]

where in Canada do you get the tax break and free charger install?

In BC I got the combined $9k BEV rebates & $250 from BC Hydro towards a mobile charger.
Ford’s Vapor Injection Heat Pump is designed to ‘turbocharge’ the refrigerant system to help improve heat transfer capability & reduce power consumption. Ford’s patented heat pump system utilizes vapor injection in both heating & cooling modes to help optimize system performance in various ambient temperatures

 

[Kev12345]

Wherever you live looks beautiful BTW!

 

[Jake24]

Wherever you live looks beautiful BTW!

 

[ExCivilian]

I'm a firm believer in heat pump technology but I'm skeptical they make much difference in an EV.

Many, maybe most, AC units in the SW desert use heat pump technology. With the development of multi-stage pumps that technology is increasingly utilized in more moderate climates, as well (but it isn't cheap to install or repair, which has implications for its use in vehicles). Many pool owners around the country use heat pumps to heat their pools (but not spas, and the reasoning for that will become more clear as I explain). Many here will also be familiar with the increased use of heat pumps in things like water heaters, for example.

The "problem" with all those implementations is they sit in one place and take a while to warm up. The whole benefit of a heat pump is the well-known principle that operating a pump at its most efficient point can result in enormous energy savings compared to a standard pump or AC compressor--but those energy savings are often realized through operating the heat pump in low and slow conditions.

What that means is that you heat/cool a house and then maintain it there (with lots of insulation), you warm the water heater's water up and then maintain it there (with lots of insulation), you warm the pool water up and then maintain it there (with a pool cover--or, in other words, insulation). Anytime you need a burst of energy the heat pump's efficiency takes a nosedive. Water heaters are hybrid so you can use a heating element when the water use outstrips the pump's efficiency. Homes either have supplemental heating or the occupants have to use personal insulation--and the packaged units have emergency resistive heat strips just in case. A pool heat pump simply can't keep up without a cover and worse than worthless in a high demand use-case like a spa.

What does all this have to do with an EV?

Well, I would argue that EV driving approximates high-use, high-demand use cases. When you get in, the car is generally cold (or hot) and you want to change that very quickly for occupants' comfort. *Most* driving patterns are local/short trips and EVs in particular don't do well with long trips because you have to stop and charge every couple hours.

So where does that leave us? If you can adjust the cabin before you leave then the heat pump can probably efficiently maintain it. If you're driving to the grocery store it probably doesn't matter, though--you might as well just use the seats, wheel, and could even just put the blower on full blast since you'll come right back home and can plug it in. If you're going for a two hour drive it'll probably help eke out some savings but, again, only if you start out with the cabin where you want it. Maybe if you're going for a really long trip it starts to make more sense but now you're dealing with losses through the truck's insulation (or lack of).

So all in all we end up with percentages of differences rather than night and day, which is why every major manufacturer who has implemented heat pump technology has either faced a lawsuit or recall from their customers. Someone said they did wonders for the model 3 in this thread but my read of the issue is that customers have had to suffer recalls, high cost repairs, and unexpected technological issues...for about a 10% increase in range (and again this isn't across the board as it could only realistically reveal itself during longer trips). Once they're standard features the choice won't be your problem to make anymore but currently it's hard to justify spending more for a specification that really only pans out on paper, imo. In short, the juice probably isn't worth the squeeze.

 

[Jake24]

I'm a firm believer in heat pump technology but I'm skeptical they make much difference in an EV.

I've never had a vehicle that blows cold air so quick after startup.

 

[potato]

The whole benefit of a heat pump is the well-known principle that operating a pump at its most efficient point can result in enormous energy savings compared to a standard pump or AC compressor--but those energy savings are often realized through operating the heat pump in low and slow conditions.

You keep using that term "heat pump" but I do not think it means what you think it means. All AC units, house or car, SW desert or anywhere else, are heat pumps. A heat pump is just a refrigeration compressor, as opposed to resistive heating. If used to move heat from inside to outside for cooling only, we call it an air conditioner, refrigerator or freezer depending on application. If used to move heat from outside to inside for heating then we call it a heat pump.

The whole benefit of a heat pump is to use electricity to move existing heat from one place to another, rather than converting that electricity to heat directly.

 

[ExCivilian]

You keep using that term "heat pump" but I do not think it means what you think it means. All AC units, house or car, SW desert or anywhere else, are heat pumps. A heat pump is just a refrigeration compressor, as opposed to resistive heating.

I know what heat pumps are and they operate exactly as I described them and they have the design limitations I correctly identified.

All AC units are not heat pumps. Heat pumps use a reversing valve whereas non-heat pump AC units do not. In my desert home I have a heat pump whereas my coastal home has a standard AC unit with gas furnace, like most of the non-desert homes in SoCal if they even have AC (which many/most housing stock here does not).

You're misinterpreting what I wrote in the quoted portion.

"operating a [this is referring to any not just heat] pump at its most efficient point can result in enormous energy savings compared to a standard [single speed] pump or AC compressor [which are also mostly single speed pumps]" is discussing the benefits of using variable speed pumps.

I never questioned whether a heat pump is or isn't capable of cooling/heating an EV. Since heat pumps' efficiencies depend on their variable speed motors their efficiencies tend not to be realized during short trips and in poorly insulated vehicles. The closer that variable speed motor is ramped up to 100% it becomes less efficient and it's not even close: running my variable speed pool pump at 1000 RPM uses about 125w, running it at 3000 RPM uses about 1500 watts, and its max speed at 3450 RPM nearly doubles to 2700 watts! The difference between running that pump at 1/3 max speed and full speed is a 20x difference in electricity usage.

"The whole benefit of a heat pump is to use electricity to move existing heat from one place to another, rather than converting that electricity to heat directly."

That benefit is based on the principle I wrote: the efficiency gains are realized through using the "electricity" to power a variable speed motor at a lower speed.

I've never had a vehicle that blows cold air so quick after startup.

Awesome! It's also using the same electricity as my non-heat pump AC to do that so I'm not sure what your response was to in my post.

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