Taking the Politics Out of EVs

[Firn]

If you just allow it to happen naturally then it wouldn't get political. While I took advantage of the $7500 gov rebate, I don't necessarily agree with it.

It's important to understand that the $7500 isn't a rebate to convince someone to "go green", it's primary purpose is to fund the manufacture for a product that is currently more expensive to manufacture.

Remember, traditional vehicles have had 100 years to build a global supply chain and to drive costs down within that supply chain. EVs have not had anywhere near that amount of time so their was not a global supply chain built, let alone one that competes amongst itself to drive down costs.

The issue is current players can drive out new competitors simply from time available to optimize. At its simplest the rebate is like giving a "small business" a leg up getting started when they compete against the like of Walmart and Amazon.

As for the EV mandates, that certainly is a different discussion.

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[Electric Messiah]

I live next to a nuke plant, so I'm hoping that I'm being powered by nukes

The main reason this all got political is because the government is trying to force people to use EV's. Nobody likes to be forced to do something, and they will find roadblocks why it won't work for them. Be a project manager for a day and you'll see this human trait.
If you just allow it to happen naturally then it wouldn't get political. While I took advantage of the $7500 gov rebate, I don't necessarily agree with it.

Incentives and "forcing" are two different things.

 

[VEGAS LIGHTNING]

I researched the @#$@ out of EV's before I purchased my Lightning. (I had a 18 months) to do so! After 10,000 miles I feel vindicated as with one exception nothing has happened I did not anticipate. However that one thing is the reaction I get from casual friends who aren't familiar with my politics. I live in a predominantly conservative part of the country and when I tell casual friend I own an EV, they automatically assume I'm a liberal . I know this because of the silence I encounter. There is no follow up questions about my experience, no questions I why I made my choice. Most likely the subject is changed as if I just confessed to like Nazi's.

I spend an inordinate time explaining to friends/family debunking all the BS that conservative politicians and media keep putting out. The belief in climate change is the overarching issue, but our government has exasperated the problem with "green energy" subsidies. Eliminate them and let the people choose! I believe that over time people will see the simplicity, reduced maintenance, ower costs, and a much better driving experience will win out.

Don't forget the subsidies the petroleum industry has gotten and still gets for over 100 years now.

 

[John Becker]

EVs aren't the problem. Government shoving them down our throats is the problem.

 

[RickLightning]

Nobody is shoving anything down anyone's throats. In reality, were the government not involved in many things, people would not change behavior. Sometimes a change in behavior benefits the many.

Let's get rid of all the subsidies - farm, fuel, etc. Then let's see how the people who don't want subsidies react to the lack of subsidies.

 

[Mach Turtle]

EVs aren't the problem. Government shoving them down our throats is the problem.

Agreed that mandates/bans aren't the best way to promote EVs. It's part of being human: make something forbidden, taboo, and it seems more attractive. Give people the option of something newer and better, allow us to realize the advantages, stop incentivizing fossils, and most of us will come around.

 

[RickKeen]

Subsidies ARE mandatory participation.
Taxpayers are paying part of the cost for EV''s regardless if they drive one or not.
Same thing on Oil subsidies.
Taxpayers are paying oil companies part of the cost to drill more wells regardless if you think that is a good idea or not or even use oil.

The place where subsidies tick me off is when they pile on profits to companies already making record profits like the Oil companies are - we are just paying their profits out of our tax dollars while they sell the oil outside the U.S. for a global price set by global demand unrelated to U.S. supply.

EV's are mixed. On the one hand, Tesla is already profitable. On the other, we want to encourage other U.S. manufacturers so as to have robust competition and make it cheaper for adoption.

I do much prefer that the actual cash flow through the taxpayer and not directly to the company. At least that drives awareness. How many people know about the amount of subsidies to U.S. Oil companies? Imagine if instead of giving the cash directly to the Oil companies, there was a tax credit on your IRS forms? People would def get a clue about how much we are subsidizing big Oil if they could claim the tax rebate directly.

 

[Dlm]

I’m an ultra MAGA Trumper from Missouri. On paper I’m the last person you would think would be driving a lightning. Then again there are 3 EV owners at my work(2 Teslas and my Lightning and we are all right wingers so )

What sold it for me was the first time I test drove one back in the summer of 2023. It was the most fun vehicle I had ever driven. I’m a numbers guy and after comparing gas vs electric costs, I came to the conclusion that I could still be a truck guy and drive for pennies? Keep in mind I’m a DIY weekender who doesn’t tow long distances and uses the truck for the Home Depot and Nursery mulch runs 10% of the time and 90% kid hauler. If I towed long distances a lot, this truck would be a nonstarter.

I was all in at the time except they were still charging MSRP at the time so I was in no rush to trade in my 2013 Ram 1500. When Ford finally became aggressive with their pricing that sold it for me.

The fact I get to drive a race car of a truck for pennies is what Ford needs to be pushing. Plus I now have a back up generator for the house…..fricken awesome!

 

[flyct]

I’m an ultra MAGA Trumper from Missouri. On paper I’m the last person you would think would be driving a lightning. Then again there are 3 EV owners at my work(2 Teslas and my Lightning and we are all right wingers so )

What sold it for me was the first time I test drove one back in the summer of 2023. It was the most fun vehicle I had ever driven. I’m a numbers guy and after comparing gas vs electric costs, I came to the conclusion that I could still be a truck guy and drive for pennies? Keep in mind I’m a DIY weekender who doesn’t tow long distances and uses the truck for the Home Depot and Nursery mulch runs 10% of the time and 90% kid hauler. If I towed long distances a lot, this truck would be a nonstarter.

I was all in at the time except they were still charging MSRP at the time so I was in no rush to trade in my 2013 Ram 1500. When Ford finally became aggressive with their pricing that sold it for me.

The fact I get to drive a race car of a truck for pennies is what Ford needs to be pushing. Plus I now have a back up generator for the house…..fricken awesome!

OMG. You need to turn in your RED Hat!!

I have 2 friends who are also ultra MAGA Trumpers that own EVs. One has been a Tesla owner for almost 4 years and the other is on his 2nd Mach-E. They always wear their red hats unless they are driving their EVs.

My Ultra MAGA next door neighbor made fun of my Tesla's last year. 6 months ago he bought a Model S and hides it behind his 2 diesel trucks.

I was talking to a Left Leaning friend this week and they said they would never buy a Tesla because she hates the man and the affiliation with the MAGA crowd.

Its a shame that politics can have such an impact on car buying. This is nothing new. My WW2 buddy refused to ride in my Lexus or my Toyota when he was alive 15 years ago.

 

[RickLightning]

This forum is no politics, and we've got people proclaiming their politics...

 

[flyct]

EVs aren't the problem. Government shoving them down our throats is the problem.

The purpose of the Inflation Reduction Act, which includes tax credits for certain EVs, is not designed to shove EVs down our throats. It is designed to incent manufactures to produce American Made products. Tesla was until recently producing a Model 3 with a Chinese LFP battery. "The LFP cells also made the Model 3 RWD not qualify for the federal EV tax credit (IRA tax credit), which, in 2024, is applied at the point of sale." Tesla dropped it from production in the US. The lack of IRA EV Tax credit, plus 25% tariff on China-made lithium-ion batteries and components worked to de-incentify unfriendly country products.

 

[RickKeen]

I was talking to a Left Leaning friend this week and they said they would never buy a Tesla because she hates the man and the affiliation with the MAGA crowd.

Why would I want to fund a company whose profits accrue to Musk who has openly stated he wants tax cuts for billionaires, add tariffs to protect his profits, deregulate to rape our environment, anti-labor regulations to squeeze more profits out of his workers, cut benefits (SS, Medicaid, ACA), and colludes with Putin and the Saudis and other of our adversaries, all to make himself richer and more powerful?
(Not even counting Trump being a rapist, felon, seditionist, election fraud, and spy).
What is possibly in it for me?

 

[Dlm]

OMG. You need to turn in your RED Hat!!

I have 2 friends who are also ultra MAGA Trumpers that own EVs. One has been a Tesla owner for almost 4 years and the other is on his 2nd Mach-E. They always wear their red hats unless they are driving their EVs.

My Ultra MAGA next door neighbor made fun of my Tesla's last year. 6 months ago he bought a Model S and hides it behind his 2 diesel trucks.

I was talking to a Left Leaning friend this week and they said they would never buy a Tesla because she hates the man and the affiliation with the MAGA crowd.

Its a shame that politics can have such an impact on car buying. This is nothing new. My WW2 buddy refused to ride in my Lexus or my Toyota when he was alive 15 years ago.

I’ve been roasted by many friends and co-workers about my Lightning. It’s all in good fun.

I’m confident that as more people of different ideologies are personally exposed to EV’s (Versus what they have “heard” about them) the politics of it will fade. Until then I will continue to enjoy the back and forth banter about my “woke” mobile.

 

[Tony Burgh]

Fear not, MAGA friends. How long until Musk gets Trump to advocate for EV’s? Musk is transactional and definitely not rigid in his political philosophy. Trump is not that rigid politically either.
And the Cybertruck is still fugly no matter who’s touting it.

Trying not to be political but if I failed, delete before reading.

 

[Texas Dan]

The CAFE standards are forcing manufacturers to build and sell an increasing number of EVs and because of CAFE within ten years there will be very few new ICE vehicles offered for sale. Is that right? Anyone that thinks EVs are the natural evolution of transportation is naive.

Society as a whole has decided that the detrimental effects of ICEs must be stopped and has had the political will to pass laws to try to eliminate them. Is everyone going to be happy with these laws? No.

We are witnessing a revolution, not an evolution. This kind of change, even if necessary, is disruptive. Entire industries are being displaced.

Anyone that thinks this revolution will not be disruptive, again, is naive. So far most of the battles of this revolution have been fought mostly in boardrooms and in the halls of government. I hope that these struggles stay off the streets but I feel I’m being naive if I believe that will be the case.

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