FordPass new terms

[BennyTheBeaver]

He was obviously referring to your first Borne, Jason Borne. Jeez... give him shit for not capitalizing instead of his intent!

Ahem...

You mean Jason BOURNE?

Do two wrongs make a right?

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[StaggerLee]

Sometime today, probably when my app got the new T&Cs (which I accepted without reading all the way through), my Fordpass app lost connection with the truck. Still thinks it's parked up north with 72% SOC, but instead it's home at 80%. Remote lock etc just spins indefinitely.

Is there a reset procedure? Just uninstall and reinstall?

For the record, this seems to have resolved itself after about 24 hours.

 

[FloridaMan655321]

I always thought it would be a good law to pass that if you decline the new agreement, you have the right to get refunded for whatever product it is. To me it makes sense, yes I buy this product and agree to the terms, now you want to sell my data (or whatever) and update the terms. Well no I don't agree and I should get a full refund.

 

[Danface]

I always thought it would be a good law to pass that if you decline the new agreement, you have the right to get refunded for whatever product it is. To me it makes sense, yes I buy this product and agree to the terms, now you want to sell my data (or whatever) and update the terms. Well no I don't agree and I should get a full refund.

But you agreed to let them change the terms of the agreement when you agreed to the terms of the agreement, agreed (or agreeved)

 

[FloridaMan655321]

But you agreed to let them change the terms of the agreement when you agreed to the terms of the agreement, agreed (or agreeved)

Yup, that is why Congress has to make those changes.

 

[Danface]

Yup, that is why Congress has to make those changes.

Yup, but that's not going to happen. Too much "free speech" being invest ... oops ... "donated" to politics.

 

[evowner]

Just tried to open my Ford pass and I can't unless I Accept the new terms. If I don't accept, I can't open my Ford pass.
Has anyone read all the pages and see what rights we are giving up by signing off on this.
This is just the first screen shot. It's 23 different sections of multiple pages of legal Mumbo Jumbo
https://www.fordpass.com/content/ford_com/fp_app/en_us/termsprivacy.html

These waivers are out of control. My wife and I recently wanted to sign up for a course held at a local municipality owned property. We read the agreement and were pretty much shocked at what it said., in part, "They could not be held liable for your death from a representative, an employee, or another attendee, regardless if it was accidental or intentional". WTF. We did not sign.

 

[Danface]

These waivers are out of control. My wife and I recently wanted to sign up for a course held at a local municipality owned property. We read the agreement and were pretty much shocked at what it said., in part, "They could not be held liable for your death from a representative, an employee, or another attendee, regardless if it was accidental or intentional". WTF. We did not sign.

I suppose that's one way of getting rid of people you don't like (and don't piss off the bartenders)

 

[jimfigler]

Why care honestly.

 

[Danface]

Why care honestly.

For me, simply because I value my privacy.

 

[PrimeRisk]

Not just on my phone but everyones phones. It just started yesterday. Have you attempted to open your ford pass app since yesterday? Which I assume everyone has. It's the only convenient way to access most features of your lightning. And it's 23 different sections. Doesn't show what's new and what's old. Not sure unless you printed the terms when you first agreed that you can compare what Ford is demanding upon its users.

Who read their sales or lease contracts when you purchased your lightning? Believe me this 23 pages is more confusing as to what rights we have and what Ford has over us.

Rick

Yeah, putting that much info to review on your phone is absolute BS, especially when you're not just opening the app to read pages of legaleze, you're opening it because you need to do something. The enforceability of these types of terms is questionable as you'd have a hard time proving that YOU clicked on the "Accept" button. They should be sending us an e-mail that links us back to our Ford.com accounts and the app should have a statement saying that new terms and conditions are coming into effect on a certain date and that we can read all about it on the Ford website. Usage beyond said date is implied consent.

Meh, I'm not too worried about terms in an app.

As for the sales contract, you better bet I read every word of it before I signed it. I also read the entire finance agreement before I signed it. I've spent too much time finding defects in these types of contracts to allow myself to get fooled.

Story time as to why I'm very much a stickler about reading contracts:

Back when I was young(er) and dumb(er), I was almost taken when I was trying to buy my very first new car. Found the car I wanted at a price I wanted and signed the sales contract. That contract was 1 page and while I didn't exactly understand all of the terms, it said I was agreeing to buy the car and that if financing fell through after I took delivery for some reason I'd have to find other financing. If I couldn't and had to return it, I owed them for mileage I put on the car at something stupid like $0.50/mile.

Then it was off to finance to see their pile of paperwork. I was amazed at how much there was as I had already purchased a home. As I'm reading and signing documents, I stumbled across this one agreement that basically said that no matter what financing I thought I got approved for, until it was finalized and accepted by the bank, all of the terms and interest rates could change and I was effectively required to complete the deal as long as the interest rate was under 29.99%.

Err...that's where I stopped. I told the finance person that the going rate was around 6% for car loans and I thought I'd qualify for the Chrysler Finance special rate of 4.99%, but if it was anything over 8%, I just wouldn't buy the car. He said that since it was Saturday, no banks were open and they couldn't get an approval that day and even if they get an approval, that doesn't mean it's final. This started the tap dancing by the finance guy assuring me that my application was solid and he was *sure* there'd be no issues. I said no way, I wouldn't sign that agreement nor would I take delivery of the vehicle unless and until I had final financing. At this point he just snatched the entire package back and said if that was my attitude, then I couldn't have the car.

What he wasn't prepared for is me just saying "Ok" and walking out of his office. I was already in my car when the salesman caught up to me asking what happened. I explained that I didn't agree to their finance departments terms about committing to a loan without knowing the terms. He begged me to come back in and he'd get the finance manager to fix it. The finance manager was a bit more on point and said I could skip that particular document, but I'd have to wait for up to a week to take delivery of the car until after the loan was finalized. I again said "Ok".

I signed the rest of the paperwork and left the dealership. On Monday afternoon the original finance person called me and told me I had been approved for the 4.99% financing and I could come pick up the car immediately if I'd sign the final piece of documentation, if not then I'd have to wait. I said I'd wait. He called on Thursday morning and said my loan was final, so I could come get my new car! Yay!

Thursday after work I arrived at the dealership and headed into the finance office to sign the final documents. The finance person I had been working with had gone home for the day. The loan agreement his stunt double put in front of me, folded over to the last page, and he pointed at it to sign. I flipped it back to find out that what I thought I'd been approved for wasn't what he was trying to get me to sign. Instead of 4.99% for 4 years, it was 16.99% for 6 years. Making it worse, it was a closed-end loan meaning that even if I refinanced it or paid it off early, I'd still pay all of the interest.

I flipped it closed and said I wouldn't take that deal. The finance guy went full-on evil and flipped it back to the last page and said you signed a contract that you'd take anything under 29.99% and if I didn't sign it right then and there that they'd take the car back and sue me.

This was the first time in my life I had cursed during a business transaction. I told him I had signed no such agreement (and just for this reason) and I didn't even have the car so he could f*ck all the way off. The salesman was hanging around outside of finance and was dangling the keys in his hand when I walked out. His expression changed immediately when he saw my face and he asked me what the problem was. I told him and everyone else in the showroom what I thought of their slimy finance bait-and-switch tactics and that I would never in a million years do business with them. The next day I got calls from the original finance person, the finance manager, and the dealership GM all begging me to come back in so they could strike a new deal. I told each one of them they could go pound sand.

End result was I drove to the dealership in the next town and looked for the exact same car. They didn't have it, but in inventory they could see it was available at the dealership where I had been jerked around. That dealership said they could have it moved to them for sale in a few days and they offered me a deal $500 under my previous deal. I said ok, but finance better not jerk me around like the other dealership. They didn't and for some reason even they couldn't explain, I qualified and got the 4.99% for 4 year deal from Chrysler.

 

[chl]

Just tried to open my Ford pass and I can't unless I Accept the new terms. If I don't accept, I can't open my Ford pass.
Has anyone read all the pages and see what rights we are giving up by signing off on this.
This is just the first screen shot. It's 23 different sections of multiple pages of legal Mumbo Jumbo
https://www.fordpass.com/content/ford_com/fp_app/en_us/termsprivacy.html

It's a "contract of adhesion" so it's take it or leave it.

So I never bother reading the whole shebang.

A contract of adhesion is a legally binding agreement that gives one party more power to set the terms than the other. The party with more power prepares the contract and presents it to the other party on a "take it or leave it" basis...

They could be challenged in court if they are "unfair" and/or "unconscionable" but lottsa luck with that.

When are adhesion contracts unenforceable?
They contain unconscionable provisions
They contain provisions that violate public policy
They are complex and unclear [LOL, aren't they always?]
They favor the drafter of the contract
They contain harsh remedies or penalties
They allow unilateral changes to the contract terms
They exploit underprivileged, underaged, or uneducated individuals

How do courts determine if an adhesion contract is enforceable?
They use a "reasonable expectations" test
They consider the clarity of the contract's language
They consider the purpose of the contract
They consider the bargaining power between the parties

That's the legal answer in theory.
In practice you are stuck with it if you want to use the software.

One thing that is not as much of a problem now with privacy laws is the selling your info to spammers...in case you missed it, privacy laws are under assault recently, and 19 year old yahoos have gotten access to a lot of the info the US GOv't has on all of us...what could go wrong?

 

[chl]

Yeah, putting that much info to review on your phone is absolute BS, especially when you're not just opening the app to read pages of legaleze, you're opening it because you need to do something. The enforceability of these types of terms is questionable as you'd have a hard time proving that YOU clicked on the "Accept" button. They should be sending us an e-mail that links us back to our Ford.com accounts and the app should have a statement saying that new terms and conditions are coming into effect on a certain date and that we can read all about it on the Ford website. Usage beyond said date is implied consent.

Meh, I'm not too worried about terms in an app.

As for the sales contract, you better bet I read every word of it before I signed it. I also read the entire finance agreement before I signed it. I've spent too much time finding defects in these types of contracts to allow myself to get fooled.

Story time as to why I'm very much a stickler about reading contracts:

Back when I was young(er) and dumb(er), I was almost taken when I was trying to buy my very first new car. Found the car I wanted at a price I wanted and signed the sales contract. That contract was 1 page and while I didn't exactly understand all of the terms, it said I was agreeing to buy the car and that if financing fell through after I took delivery for some reason I'd have to find other financing. If I couldn't and had to return it, I owed them for mileage I put on the car at something stupid like $0.50/mile.

Then it was off to finance to see their pile of paperwork. I was amazed at how much there was as I had already purchased a home. As I'm reading and signing documents, I stumbled across this one agreement that basically said that no matter what financing I thought I got approved for, until it was finalized and accepted by the bank, all of the terms and interest rates could change and I was effectively required to complete the deal as long as the interest rate was under 29.99%.

Err...that's where I stopped. I told the finance person that the going rate was around 6% for car loans and I thought I'd qualify for the Chrysler Finance special rate of 4.99%, but if it was anything over 8%, I just wouldn't buy the car. He said that since it was Saturday, no banks were open and they couldn't get an approval that day and even if they get an approval, that doesn't mean it's final. This started the tap dancing by the finance guy assuring me that my application was solid and he was *sure* there'd be no issues. I said no way, I wouldn't sign that agreement nor would I take delivery of the vehicle unless and until I had final financing. At this point he just snatched the entire package back and said if that was my attitude, then I couldn't have the car.

What he wasn't prepared for is me just saying "Ok" and walking out of his office. I was already in my car when the salesman caught up to me asking what happened. I explained that I didn't agree to their finance departments terms about committing to a loan without knowing the terms. He begged me to come back in and he'd get the finance manager to fix it. The finance manager was a bit more on point and said I could skip that particular document, but I'd have to wait for up to a week to take delivery of the car until after the loan was finalized. I again said "Ok".

I signed the rest of the paperwork and left the dealership. On Monday afternoon the original finance person called me and told me I had been approved for the 4.99% financing and I could come pick up the car immediately if I'd sign the final piece of documentation, if not then I'd have to wait. I said I'd wait. He called on Thursday morning and said my loan was final, so I could come get my new car! Yay!

Thursday after work I arrived at the dealership and headed into the finance office to sign the final documents. The finance person I had been working with had gone home for the day. The loan agreement his stunt double put in front of me, folded over to the last page, and he pointed at it to sign. I flipped it back to find out that what I thought I'd been approved for wasn't what he was trying to get me to sign. Instead of 4.99% for 4 years, it was 16.99% for 6 years. Making it worse, it was a closed-end loan meaning that even if I refinanced it or paid it off early, I'd still pay all of the interest.

I flipped it closed and said I wouldn't take that deal. The finance guy went full-on evil and flipped it back to the last page and said you signed a contract that you'd take anything under 29.99% and if I didn't sign it right then and there that they'd take the car back and sue me.

This was the first time in my life I had cursed during a business transaction. I told him I had signed no such agreement (and just for this reason) and I didn't even have the car so he could f*ck all the way off. The salesman was hanging around outside of finance and was dangling the keys in his hand when I walked out. His expression changed immediately when he saw my face and he asked me what the problem was. I told him and everyone else in the showroom what I thought of their slimy finance bait-and-switch tactics and that I would never in a million years do business with them. The next day I got calls from the original finance person, the finance manager, and the dealership GM all begging me to come back in so they could strike a new deal. I told each one of them they could go pound sand.

End result was I drove to the dealership in the next town and looked for the exact same car. They didn't have it, but in inventory they could see it was available at the dealership where I had been jerked around. That dealership said they could have it moved to them for sale in a few days and they offered me a deal $500 under my previous deal. I said ok, but finance better not jerk me around like the other dealership. They didn't and for some reason even they couldn't explain, I qualified and got the 4.99% for 4 year deal from Chrysler.

Oh man, that brings back ugly memories from car deals of the past before I learned to say no and get up and walk out.

Much better nowadays most places. Still some slime out there though. Thankfully I haven't encountered it in many years.

The first time I bought a house, I was a first year law student - I read every damn page of every document, lol. Took a while longer than the agents had hoped, but in the end, all was correct.

The 29.99 percent was what used to be called "usry." Anything above that was unconscionable.
Now many states allow a contract to override their max "usury" rate.

Your story is very timely, unfortunately...

Just today, the new administration decided to shut down all work at the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau...so it will be back to "laissez faire" economics and "caveat emptor" - cut throat capitalism in coming to a country near you.

 

[Danface]

Oh man, that brings back ugly memories from car deals of the past before I learned to say no and get up and walk out.

Much better nowadays most places. Still some slime out there though. Thankfully I haven't encountered it in many years.

The first time I bought a house, I was a first year law student - I read every damn page of every document, lol. Took a while longer than the agents had hoped, but in the end, all was correct.

The 29.99 percent was what used to be called "usry." Anything above that was unconscionable.
Now many states allow a contract to override their max "usury" rate.

Your story is very timely, unfortunately...

Just today, the new administration decided to shut down all work at the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau...so it will be back to "laissez faire" economics and "caveat emptor" - cut throat capitalism in coming to a country near you.

Cut throat driven by oligarchs with knives a mile long.

 

[GDN]

Yeah, putting that much info to review on your phone is absolute BS, especially when you're not just opening the app to read pages of legaleze, you're opening it because you need to do something. The enforceability of these types of terms is questionable as you'd have a hard time proving that YOU clicked on the "Accept" button. They should be sending us an e-mail that links us back to our Ford.com accounts and the app should have a statement saying that new terms and conditions are coming into effect on a certain date and that we can read all about it on the Ford website. Usage beyond said date is implied consent.

Meh, I'm not too worried about terms in an app.

As for the sales contract, you better bet I read every word of it before I signed it. I also read the entire finance agreement before I signed it. I've spent too much time finding defects in these types of contracts to allow myself to get fooled.

Story time as to why I'm very much a stickler about reading contracts:

Back when I was young(er) and dumb(er), I was almost taken when I was trying to buy my very first new car. Found the car I wanted at a price I wanted and signed the sales contract. That contract was 1 page and while I didn't exactly understand all of the terms, it said I was agreeing to buy the car and that if financing fell through after I took delivery for some reason I'd have to find other financing. If I couldn't and had to return it, I owed them for mileage I put on the car at something stupid like $0.50/mile.

Then it was off to finance to see their pile of paperwork. I was amazed at how much there was as I had already purchased a home. As I'm reading and signing documents, I stumbled across this one agreement that basically said that no matter what financing I thought I got approved for, until it was finalized and accepted by the bank, all of the terms and interest rates could change and I was effectively required to complete the deal as long as the interest rate was under 29.99%.

Err...that's where I stopped. I told the finance person that the going rate was around 6% for car loans and I thought I'd qualify for the Chrysler Finance special rate of 4.99%, but if it was anything over 8%, I just wouldn't buy the car. He said that since it was Saturday, no banks were open and they couldn't get an approval that day and even if they get an approval, that doesn't mean it's final. This started the tap dancing by the finance guy assuring me that my application was solid and he was *sure* there'd be no issues. I said no way, I wouldn't sign that agreement nor would I take delivery of the vehicle unless and until I had final financing. At this point he just snatched the entire package back and said if that was my attitude, then I couldn't have the car.

What he wasn't prepared for is me just saying "Ok" and walking out of his office. I was already in my car when the salesman caught up to me asking what happened. I explained that I didn't agree to their finance departments terms about committing to a loan without knowing the terms. He begged me to come back in and he'd get the finance manager to fix it. The finance manager was a bit more on point and said I could skip that particular document, but I'd have to wait for up to a week to take delivery of the car until after the loan was finalized. I again said "Ok".

I signed the rest of the paperwork and left the dealership. On Monday afternoon the original finance person called me and told me I had been approved for the 4.99% financing and I could come pick up the car immediately if I'd sign the final piece of documentation, if not then I'd have to wait. I said I'd wait. He called on Thursday morning and said my loan was final, so I could come get my new car! Yay!

Thursday after work I arrived at the dealership and headed into the finance office to sign the final documents. The finance person I had been working with had gone home for the day. The loan agreement his stunt double put in front of me, folded over to the last page, and he pointed at it to sign. I flipped it back to find out that what I thought I'd been approved for wasn't what he was trying to get me to sign. Instead of 4.99% for 4 years, it was 16.99% for 6 years. Making it worse, it was a closed-end loan meaning that even if I refinanced it or paid it off early, I'd still pay all of the interest.

I flipped it closed and said I wouldn't take that deal. The finance guy went full-on evil and flipped it back to the last page and said you signed a contract that you'd take anything under 29.99% and if I didn't sign it right then and there that they'd take the car back and sue me.

This was the first time in my life I had cursed during a business transaction. I told him I had signed no such agreement (and just for this reason) and I didn't even have the car so he could f*ck all the way off. The salesman was hanging around outside of finance and was dangling the keys in his hand when I walked out. His expression changed immediately when he saw my face and he asked me what the problem was. I told him and everyone else in the showroom what I thought of their slimy finance bait-and-switch tactics and that I would never in a million years do business with them. The next day I got calls from the original finance person, the finance manager, and the dealership GM all begging me to come back in so they could strike a new deal. I told each one of them they could go pound sand.

End result was I drove to the dealership in the next town and looked for the exact same car. They didn't have it, but in inventory they could see it was available at the dealership where I had been jerked around. That dealership said they could have it moved to them for sale in a few days and they offered me a deal $500 under my previous deal. I said ok, but finance better not jerk me around like the other dealership. They didn't and for some reason even they couldn't explain, I qualified and got the 4.99% for 4 year deal from Chrysler.

And these same people are in business in so many dealers every day. In many cases now protected by laws that the dealer associations have bought from their senators and representatives.

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