do i need bigger battery upgrade if only using 1 or twice a year of long road trips?

[BennyTheBeaver]

Yeah, I could buy a Pro SR and a new MINI Cooper SE and have two new EVs for barely more than an XLT ER.

The bigger battery would be nice, but I doubt I can justify it for how much more it costs.

Not to mention, currently tax credits drop off after the MSRP reaches a certain amount (currently $40k). Meaning the Pro SR would net me an additional $12,500 in tax credits (which I'm able to utilize). That makes the Pro SR a $27,495 vehicle vs the XLT ER which currently doesn't qualify for the rebate. That becomes a $32,500 difference. There is no way I can justify spending $32,500 extra for an Extended Battery that I may realistically use a few times a year. Yeah, a little less performance, yeah I don't get the faster charger (which I can still purchase later on and sell the standard one), but neither of those are worth $32,500.

I was initially all in on the XLT ER, now I'm all in on the Pro SR which I can customize with aftermarket equipment after I get it.

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[sotek2345]

Not to mention, currently tax credits drop off after the MSRP reaches a certain amount (currently $40k). Meaning the Pro SR would net me an additional $12,500 in tax credits (which I'm able to utilize). That makes the Pro SR a $27,495 vehicle vs the XLT ER which currently doesn't qualify for the rebate. That becomes a $32,500 difference. There is no way I can justify spending $32,500 extra for an Extended Battery that I may realistically use a few times a year. Yeah, a little less performance, yeah I don't get the faster charger (which I can still purchase later on and sell the standard one), but neither of those are worth $32,500.

I was initially all in on the XLT ER, now I'm all in on the Pro SR which I can customize with aftermarket equipment after I get it.

That $40k cutoff was proposed, but is not in any legislation at this point. The House version of the bill had the cutoff from trucks at $74k. Who knows what is going to come out at the end.

 

[astricklin]

Not to mention, currently tax credits drop off after the MSRP reaches a certain amount (currently $40k). Meaning the Pro SR would net me an additional $12,500 in tax credits (which I'm able to utilize). That makes the Pro SR a $27,495 vehicle vs the XLT ER which currently doesn't qualify for the rebate. That becomes a $32,500 difference. There is no way I can justify spending $32,500 extra for an Extended Battery that I may realistically use a few times a year. Yeah, a little less performance, yeah I don't get the faster charger (which I can still purchase later on and sell the standard one), but neither of those are worth $32,500.

I was initially all in on the XLT ER, now I'm all in on the Pro SR which I can customize with aftermarket equipment after I get it.

Assume that the current tax credit will carry over until legislative actually passes. At this point in the game no changes are guaranteed.

 

[ShirBlackspots]

That $40k cutoff was proposed, but is not in any legislation at this point. The House version of the bill had the cutoff from trucks at $74k. Who knows what is going to come out at the end.

Yeah, the Republican introduced amendment to limit tax credits to EVs under $40,000 was nothing more than a message, it was non-binding. Its something Republicans could use in their campaigns, probably claiming they introduced legislation to stop wasteful spending and the Democrats ignored it. The far right wing would eat that right up.

 

[greenne]

Also why Car Dealer Lobbies are fighting hard to require vehicle sales to go through Dealerships and not direct to consumer (like what Tesla is doing). Tesla just built a showroom on Native American land to circumvent one of these laws...

https://www.businessinsider.com/tesla-new-mexico-nambe-pueblo-tribal-land-direct-sales-ban-2021-9

This has little to do with what is best for the consumer and more to do with saving that part of the automobile industry and its jobs, IMO.

I know I'm in the minority, but with a little bit of work(and internet research) you can use the dealer model to pit dealer vs dealer for the best price due to competition. Without dealers everyone will get the pleasure of paying full msrp...all the time.

TBH, I don't know why people think that getting rid of dealers is such a great thing. I guess I can understand less stress, but 90% of us are going to pay more than we would with the dealer sales model.

 

[greenne]

Yeah, the Republican introduced amendment to limit tax credits to EVs under $40,000 was nothing more than a message, it was non-binding. Its something Republicans could use in their campaigns, probably claiming they introduced legislation to stop wasteful spending and the Democrats ignored it. The far right wing would eat that right up.

This 100%^^. ..I don't think anyone who's serious could support a $40k cap. That leaves us with like what.. either a Bolt, Leaf, or perhaps a Kona?

That is certainly not gonna fly if we want to incentivize the average Joe to make his next mainline SUV an EV instead of a gasser. It was a move to make sure the GOP could try to play both sides of the fence-- "see we support EVs, without spending a lot of money" when really it would do nothing since almost all EVs would be too expensive to qualify.

 

[BennyTheBeaver]

I know I'm in the minority, but with a little bit of work(and internet research) you can use the dealer model to pit dealer vs dealer for the best price due to competition. Without dealers everyone will get the pleasure of paying full msrp...all the time.

TBH, I don't know why people think that getting rid of dealers is such a great thing. I guess I can understand less stress, but 90% of us are going to pay more than we would with the dealer sales model.

It levels the playing field. Car buying anxiety is a real thing and more than a few people don't trust dealers. They assume dealers don't have their best intention at heart. Also, when a company can sell direct to consumers it also (typically) lowers the price/raises profit margin for the auto manufacturer. The car companies don't have to give advertising kick-backs, wholesale prices...etc, that can translate to savings for the buyer. If Ford doesn't have to pay a dealer $2k on a sale by discounting, and reimbursing...they can pass part of that to the consumer and part as additional profit. If Tesla had to staff showrooms the price of Tesla vehicles would rise, not fall.

I have pitted dealer vs dealer and saved money in the past. It's a game that creates anxiety with a lot of buyers. If I knew exactly what I'd be investing in a vehicle without having to shop around (and that vehicle was potentially cheaper because the middle men were cut out), I'd prefer that. Imagine if instead of Dealers, Ford had "Delivery Centers", with Service Centers, where the focus is 100% customer service and 0% sales.

Just my opinion.

 

[BennyTheBeaver]

This 100%^^. ..I don't think anyone who's serious could support a $40k cap. That leaves us with like what.. either a Bolt, Leaf, or perhaps a Kona?

...or a 2022 Ford Lightning Pro SR

 

[Blainestang]

Without dealers everyone will get the pleasure of paying full msrp...all the time.

90% of us are going to pay more than we would with the dealer sales model.

90% would pay less with the dealer model? No way.

90% pay less than current MSRP, maybe, but MSRPs have a ton of negotiation built in, now. If that goes away, then the price has to come down around the actual median amount that the market is willing to bear for the car.

The Bolt's MSRP was $37,500, for instance but even once the tax credit was gone, the price people paid was more like $25k. So, if it went to a "no haggle" price, then it would have to be lowered way down... way closer to $25k, or it simply won't sell and they'll be forced to lower the price more.

Yeah, probably 90% of people pay under MSRP usually, especially for trucks and such, but that doesn't mean 90% of people are going to pay more if manufacturers switch to direct pricing.

There are pros and cons of course, and people who are really good at negotiation or are willing to drive/fly to get a better deal probably would do better that way, but the average price paid will be pretty similar either way. MSRP will have to change from a completely fake number used to START negotiation to a much more realistic number relative to the car's market value.

 

[BennyTheBeaver]

Good article today showing how Ford's traditional dealer model may hold them back:

https://jalopnik.com/ford-wants-to-...agNTXqTwknTYoqmowai2-n2-5FExuexK-YAUd7BLXXBJA

 

[shutterbug]

Good article today showing how Ford's traditional dealer model may hold them back:

https://jalopnik.com/ford-wants-to-...agNTXqTwknTYoqmowai2-n2-5FExuexK-YAUd7BLXXBJA

Dealers can currently get away with selling above MSRP for 2 reasons. (1) there is a shortage of cars. Too many buyers chasing too few cars. This will eventually resolve itself. (2) Too many rubes are cooperating and paying above MSRP. There is no easy fix for stupid. But I think this will go away eventually as well.

 

[Oneand0]

Unless you’re in a rush the twice a year on long road trips, I would say no. I’ve been using an EV for a few months now that has a 326 miles on the battery. I travel to my office a couple times a month that is 156 miles away. While at home I keep the battery at 150 to about 190 miles, that is perfect for me. I could get away with a 240 mile battery easy for now. I live in South Lake Tahoe and waiting to see what the cold drain will be like on the battery. I know I will have to order the Lightning in November before the heavy snow gets here. So it’s going to be a hard choice. I’m guessing I will go for the 300 battery to play on the safe side with the cold weather here in the winter.

 

[playjack]

Hey someone else who lives on Vancouver! (I am in Langley).
The range depreciation in winter all depends on how comfortable you want to be. I am not expecting a huge decrease for when I am by myself as it doesn't get that cold here, and my drive to work is only 11 mins. Given this, the seat heater and heated steering wheel would be sufficient to keep me warm without heating up the entire truck on the way home since I work in a refrigerated building anyways. Going to work isn't an issue as I park inside of a garage that stays warm.

Hey Steffan, i am actually in Surrey but we are considered coastal climate and relatively mild winter. Do you plan on getting SR or ER? I see your driving narrative looks like you only need SR. For now, I am leaning toward SR.
Also did you enlist on the lightning reservation thread? I am now learning that likely that I won't get my truck until end of 2022 at best or 1st quarter 2023 based on my orde5thr time. Not sure if Canadians reservations will have a lesser priority queue waiting time with rest of USA. Hopefully ford can make more than targeted 15K units on its 1st year of production.

 

[SteffanG]

Hey Steffan, i am actually in Surrey but we are considered coastal climate and relatively mild winter. Do you plan on getting SR or ER? I see your driving narrative looks like you only need SR. For now, I am leaning toward SR.
Also did you enlist on the lightning reservation thread? I am now learning that likely that I won't get my truck until end of 2022 at best or 1st quarter 2023 based on my orde5thr time. Not sure if Canadians reservations will have a lesser priority queue waiting time with rest of USA. Hopefully ford can make more than targeted 15K units on its 1st year of production.

I am planning on getting a platinum so ER battery - want the extra power too!
The 15k is a number that was thrown out there, but nothing has come from ford so it could be a lot more than that. I can't see someone at Ford initially thinking 7500/year was enough production capacity when they sell 1mil f series per year. Even at a 0.1% convert to electric it would be more than that.
I am on that reservation thread - I reserved about 25 mins after opening.

 

[shutterbug]

I am planning on getting a platinum so ER battery - want the extra power too!
The 15k is a number that was thrown out there, but nothing has come from ford so it could be a lot more than that. I can't see someone at Ford initially thinking 7500/year was enough production capacity when they sell 1mil f series per year. Even at a 0.1% convert to electric it would be more than that.
I am on that reservation thread - I reserved about 25 mins after opening.

Math check. 0.1% conversion on 150,000 reservations would be 150 trucks. I do agree with you "I can't see someone at Ford initially thinking 7500/year was enough production capacity". However, whatever number number Ford planned for 2022, that's only half a year of production. I am fairly certain they were always planning to ramp up production for 2023 MY.

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