240 volt charging wall receptacle gets very warm 14-50R bryant

[FloridaBreen]

So my 240 volt charger is plugged into a 14-50R bryant receptacle wired to the panel with 3/6 gauge and 1 8 gauge ground NMB cable to a 50 amp GE circuit breaker (about 18 inches long). My EVSE has a screen and shows data. What temps are you seeing on the receptacle? Anyone know what the mobile charger limit is before it starts to derate? (my EVSE doesn't seem to derate, so i've melted a cheapo receptacle in the past).

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[flyct]

My plug outlet connection gets heated when it’s drawing 30 amps. Try this to check if you have a loose lug. After charging for a while, shut off the breaker pull the plug out and check the temp on each individual plug blade. If you have a loose connection it will certainly heat up that blade significantly.

I know I’ve measured the breaker panel circuit breakers supplying power to my EV charger with a temp gun when charging my cars. They can get very hot to touch and I’ve measured up to 130 dF.

For a point of reference. Paper won’t ignite until it reaches 420 dF. Xerographic copiers with fuser heat rollers are set to 400 degrees.

 

[Newton]

This seems a little hot to me, you are at 50C and NM-B is rated for 60C. It is probably cold where you are now so summer might get a little closer to being a problem. However 30kW is a lot of power.

The EVSE is most likely reporting the temperature at the truck side, I don’t think that any of them measure the temperature at the receptacle side because a NMEA plug with a temp sensors in it would be hard to get. You need a heat gun (they can be cheap) to test the temperature at the outlet and at the breaker. Make sure that the breaker is tight and doesn’t wiggle. If you have melted an outlet before, contacting a good electrician would be worth it.

Turn off the power and look to see if the electrician used dialectric grease on the contacts, if not I would have some questions about the quality of the work and if the screws were properly torqued as they should be. I would also compare the voltage that you are getting at 30A with the voltage when the truck is disconnected (if possible, or when the truck is charged and not taking much power).

Hardwiring is best.

 

[flyct]

This seems a little hot to me, you are at 50C and NM-B is rated for 60C. It is probably cold where you are now so summer might get a little closer to being a problem. However 30kW is a lot of power.

The EVSE is most likely reporting the temperature at the truck side, I don’t think that any of them measure the temperature at the receptacle side because a NMEA plug with a temp sensors in it would be hard to get. You need a heat gun (they can be cheap) to test the temperature at the outlet and at the breaker. Make sure that the breaker is tight and doesn’t wiggle. If you have melted an outlet before, contacting a good electrician would be worth it.

Turn off the power and look to see if the electrician used dialectric grease on the contacts, if not I would have some questions about the quality of the work and if the screws were properly torqued as they should be. I would also compare the voltage that you are getting at 30A with the voltage when the truck is disconnected (if possible, or when the truck is charged and not taking much power).

Hardwiring is best.

Dielectric grease is an insulator, not a conductor. There is no manufacture that recommends usage of any grease or lubricant on lugs. In fact the torque specs for typical commercial 14-50 outlets made by Hubbell and Bryant are Dry Torque Specs.

The only wire connections that should have a chemical at the lugs are when using aluminum wires on lugs certified for aluminum. Then usage of something like NOALOX anti-Oxidant compound is REQUIRED. This is usually found on service entrance aluminum feeder cables.

 

[DiveMan911]

I’m having a similar issue, but on a lower amperage circuit and EVSE.

First off, it’s not my property…and an electrician just came out and wired it, so I don’t know what to think (other than I doubt it’s to code).

The outlet is a NEMA 14-30r on a 20amp circuit.
However the EVSE is a 16amp charger…pumping out a whopping 3.3kW. Simple math shows this should be around 13-14amps…well below the 80% the 20amp circuit’s maximum draw. But, the outlet and the plug on the EVSE are quite hot.

Had the truck for 2.5 years and have been on all kinds of chargers, but this is the hottest I’ve felt. Hot enough that it feels concerning.

I’ll open up the outlet and tighten lugs. Any other thoughts?

 

[WilliamRobert]

If you are in doubt of your plug and receptacle, it’s probably best to do an inspection and re-torque. Is this the receptacle you have? (https://hubbellcdn.com/literature/EP-BRY-SF-EN-01870.pdf)

I’ve been using this Leviton 14-50R at 32amps (Grizzl-e mini) for almost a year now with no problems. It’s rated for ev charging. I also use Noalox on my wire connections, it lubricates the copper wires for a better torque and also protects against corrosion. For the plug and receptacle I use Deoxit D-100L (used on my camper plugs also).
With daily use, an inspection and re-torque every 6 months to a year would be a good practice also.

https://leviton.com/products/1450w

https://caig.com/product/deoxit-d100l-2db/

 

[The Weatherman]

What brand of charger are you using? Could be related if the charger is not a higher quality unit.

 

[EFG]

View the following for recommendations, I too lost a NEMA 1-50R in the past at just 32A so what he has to say here is pretty relevant even for so called "industrial" plugs". I pulled the plugs and just went hardwired.

 

[Duke_239]

I’m having a similar issue, but on a lower amperage circuit and EVSE.

First off, it’s not my property…and an electrician just came out and wired it, so I don’t know what to think (other than I doubt it’s to code).

The outlet is a NEMA 14-30r on a 20amp circuit.
However the EVSE is a 16amp charger…pumping out a whopping 3.3kW. Simple math shows this should be around 13-14amps…well below the 80% the 20amp circuit’s maximum draw. But, the outlet and the plug on the EVSE are quite hot.

Had the truck for 2.5 years and have been on all kinds of chargers, but this is the hottest I’ve felt. Hot enough that it feels concerning.

I’ll open up the outlet and tighten lugs. Any other thoughts?

Note the conductor size while you are in there.

 

[Maquis]

Dielectric grease is an insulator, not a conductor. There is no manufacture that recommends usage of any grease or lubricant on lugs. In fact the torque specs for typical commercial 14-50 outlets made by Hubbell and Bryant are Dry Torque Specs.

The only wire connections that should have a chemical at the lugs are when using aluminum wires on lugs certified for aluminum. Then usage of something like NOALOX anti-Oxidant compound is REQUIRED. This is usually found on service entrance aluminum feeder cables.

NoAlox is no longer required with the alloys currently used for wire unless specified by the device manufacturer. It doesn’t hurt anything and most electricians still use it out of habit.
100% agree on the dielectric grease. It’s good for keeping moisture out of trailer connectors and spark plug wire boots. Not for use on power connections.

 

[K6CCC]

it’s probably best to do an inspection and re-torque.

I will second that one. Having installed a NEMA 14-50 two days ago, I can tell you that the proper torque spec was surprisingly tight. I have a torque screwdriver and the receptacle had the torque spec written right on it, so after snugging the screws down I pulled out the torque driver and set it to 40 inch pounds. Had to tighten quite a bit more.
Note that this outlet will be replaced when the Ford EVSE gets installed.

 

[Ricks Lightning]

I was having issues on my non fused disconnect. Turned out the cheap design doesn't engage very deep or evenly especially with the plastic cover plate installed. These are the cheap 60 amp Air conditioning disconnects that they sell at the big box stores. Running 50 amp gfi breaker with 40 amps to the plug in charger. So mine is more the disconnect that the plug/ outlet.

Rick

 

[Brons2]

So my 240 volt charger is plugged into a 14-50R bryant receptacle wired to the panel with 3/6 gauge and 1 8 gauge ground NMB cable to a 50 amp GE circuit breaker (about 18 inches long). My EVSE has a screen and shows data. What temps are you seeing on the receptacle? Anyone know what the mobile charger limit is before it starts to derate? (my EVSE doesn't seem to derate, so i've melted a cheapo receptacle in the past).

The display on my Amazon cheapie charger is pretty much identical to that but the body of the charger is different, also has a similar green light. My plug barely gets warm to the touch even in 100F+ conditions in the garage. Location is Central Texas.

Equipment: Hubbell plug with terminals tightened down to 75 inch-lbs as recommended with the plug documentation. Homeline QO 50A breaker non-GFCI, terminals torqued to recommneded 45 inch-lbs. Used anti-oxidation paste on all terminal connections. Romex 6/3 used, plug mounted just below garage subpanel, run is between 2 and 3 feet I'd guess, didn't measure. Cut what I needed off a 15 foot roll bought at HomeDepot.

 

[FloridaBreen]

thanks Brons2. my EVSE (in the pic) was also a Amazon cheapie bought in 2020 for our PHEV Pacifica. The cheapie HD 14-50R outlet lasted 3 years before melting.

With the Lightning needing longer charging and up to the max 32A the EVSE is able to provide, I changed the cheapie outlet for the Bryant, but I guess I need to replace the romex as well and maybe the breaker - here in Florida its hot and humid, the circuit breaker panel inside the garage is showing signs of corrosion on the bus bars (where the breaker connection is seated. Perhaps I need to turn off the main and lightly sand the bus bars prior to installing a new breaker and wiring - but I must be getting old it was tough running the wire into the receptacle box and connecting the Bryant 14-50R and then getting the receptacle into the box once connected.

 

[PJnc284]

thanks Brons2. my EVSE (in the pic) was also a Amazon cheapie bought in 2020 for our PHEV Pacifica. The cheapie HD 14-50R outlet lasted 3 years before melting.

With the Lightning needing longer charging and up to the max 32A the EVSE is able to provide, I changed the cheapie outlet for the Bryant, but I guess I need to replace the romex as well and maybe the breaker - here in Florida its hot and humid, the circuit breaker panel inside the garage is showing signs of corrosion on the bus bars (where the breaker connection is seated. Perhaps I need to turn off the main and lightly sand the bus bars prior to installing a new breaker and wiring - but I must be getting old it was tough running the wire into the receptacle box and connecting the Bryant 14-50R and then getting the receptacle into the box once connected.

The romex should be fine if it's #6 which is good for 55 amps so 32 shouldn't be a problem. Your issue was most likely the outlet itself and/or wires not torqued properly.

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