Charging to 90% as mentioned in Manual or 80% like others?

[sotek2345]

My thinking was that it would be extremely rate that i’d need to fast charge unexpectedly to get extra range. Maybe once a year? Will keeping the battery, on average, at 50% instead of 70% make a difference vs an extra DCFC session once a year? I have no clue but it takes virtually no effort for me to do it, so why not?

My best guess? Either option and you are talking about a 1-2 mile difference at 300k miles.

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[RickLightning]

My thinking was that it would be extremely rate that i’d need to fast charge unexpectedly to get extra range. Maybe once a year? Will keeping the battery, on average, at 50% instead of 70% make a difference vs an extra DCFC session once a year? I have no clue but it takes virtually no effort for me to do it, so why not?

No. No difference. Total waste of your time.

 

[metroshot]

Rule #1: Drive the damn thing and don't worry about it.

2016 Model X, 165,000 miles - 90% of the time it's sitting at a 90% charge limit. If we're going to be driving more, we'll set it at 100%. We've accidentally let it sit at 100% limit for 3-7 days before. It charged to 285ish when we got it, it now charges to 260ish. Less than 10% degradation over 6 1/2 years and 165,000 miles isn't bad at all, and the rate of degradation seems to be decreasing. It lines up with many/most other owners' degradation curves.

Simply put: we don't worry.

There are some people who are absolutely religious about getting up at 3:30 am so they can set it to the full charge for a 6 am departure, ensuring that it never sits at 100% a moment more than is necessary.

These people will have ulcers. You don't want ulcers.

If you are one of those people, then you should charge only to the level you need. Some owners on TMC set theirs to 60% because they only have a 20 mile round trip work commute and they never diverge from that. Not a problem, their battery will last longer - but they never have to worry about needing more range because they don't have unexpected trips (or use another car).

So, in summary - 90% is a good number with good balance for range, set it to 100 when needed, and DON'T WORRY. If you can live with 80% or 85%, you might get a few more miles out of the truck when you reach 300,000 miles or so, perhaps in exchange for the occasional range worry if you have unexpected drives to do. If you like ulcers, then you can fret over it a bit more.

WOW!

Well said - "we don't worry" & "we don't want ulcers".

I just let both my EV charge to 100% and let the warranty sort out if it ever degrades....

 

[RickLightning]

There are some people who are absolutely religious about getting up at 3:30 am so they can set it to the full charge for a 6 am departure, ensuring that it never sits at 100% a moment more than is necessary.

These people will have ulcers. You don't want ulcers.

I think you're wrong. I think those that get up at 3:30 to set the charge for a 6AM departure aren't religious, they've got a psychological problem.

Mine charges from 7PM - 11AM. So, on the evening before a trip, it goes from 90% to 100% before 9PM. And then sits for about 11 hours. OMG, the HORROR!

I just let both my EV charge to 100% and let the warranty sort out if it ever degrades....

I guess I don't get this thinking, but they are your vehicles, not mine. To me, if the manufacturer says "less than 100%" or "90%", that's what I'm doing unless it interferes with my usage.

To each their own.

 

[metroshot]

...
I guess I don't get this thinking, but they are your vehicles, not mine. To me, if the manufacturer says "less than 100%" or "90%", that's what I'm doing unless it interferes with my usage.

To each their own.

The way I figure it, since we know there is about 10% buffer built in (never able to get to true 100% or 0%), charging to 100% is actually less than 100% - more like charging to 90% true capacity.

And yes, it is my thinking and my 2 EVs that I don't worry about since the warranties are so long and I won't own them that long.

 

[LightningShow]

No. No difference. Total waste of your time.

There’s no difference in the time required, though.

 

[ExCivilian]

Now that we have a confirmed total capacity of the battery, I feel better about explaining something I learned with the ID4:

The charge limits for the ID4 were in 10% increments. I'm not sure whether the F150L's is also in 10% increments but if it is, you'll find this interesting if you want to get the maximum DCFC charge in the least time possible.

In the ID4 you'd basically charge it from 20-80% in around 20 minutes but then it would take another 10-15 mins to get it to 90% and a full half hour longer to get to 100%. Assuming the total capacity was much larger than necessary for these early EVs I figured the same thing some here are thinking regarding 80% not really being 80%...but the next step up was 90%, which resulted in about 40 mins of charge time.

So what I would do was set it for 90% but then dial it back to 85% once it passed 86%. That would maintain the highest charging speed until the last % where the charge curve would start to slope down, which got me out of there pretty quickly with a higher charge than most *and* indicated to me 85% on the UI was really closer to 80% on the battery.

I plan on doing the same thing with the F150L unless it's got 5% increments.

 

[RickLightning]

I just let both my EV charge to 100% and let the warranty sort out if it ever degrades....

Now that we have a confirmed total capacity of the battery, I feel better about explaining something I learned with the ID4:

The charge limits for the ID4 were in 10% increments. I'm not sure whether the F150L's is also in 10% increments but if it is, you'll find this interesting if you want to get the maximum DCFC charge in the least time possible.

In the ID4 you'd basically charge it from 20-80% in around 20 minutes but then it would take another 10-15 mins to get it to 90% and a full half hour longer to get to 100%. Assuming the total capacity was much larger than necessary for these early EVs I figured the same thing some here are thinking regarding 80% not really being 80%...but the next step up was 90%, which resulted in about 40 mins of charge time.

So what I would do was set it for 90% but then dial it back to 85% once it passed 86%. That would maintain the highest charging speed until the last % where the charge curve would start to slope down, which got me out of there pretty quickly with a higher charge than most *and* indicated to me 85% on the UI was really closer to 80% on the battery.

I plan on doing the same thing with the F150L unless it's got 5% increments.

Your logic won't work.

The charging curve for the Lightning and the Mach-E has nothing to do with what you set it at. At 80% it slows down. You can play with the % all you want (I have never used the percent on a DC charger in 14 months of charging), and it will have zero impact.

 

[ExCivilian]

Your logic won't work.

The charging curve for the Lightning and the Mach-E has nothing to do with what you set it at. At 80% it slows down. You can play with the % all you want (I have never used the percent on a DC charger in 14 months of charging), and it will have zero impact.

If you've never done it on a DCFC how can you definitively state what I wrote doesn't occur?

It's as simple as setting it to stop charging at 90% but manually stopping the charge at 85% and watching whether it slows down from 80-85% (I predict it won't because that's still less than 80% of the battery).

But you could be right in that the UI governs the charge rate rather than the SOC of the actual battery, although I doubt it, but the only way to know is to try it...

 

[RickLightning]

If you've never done it on a DCFC how can you definitively state what I wrote doesn't occur?

It's as simple as setting it to stop charging at 90% but manually stopping the charge at 85% and watching whether it slows down from 80-85% (I predict it won't because that's still less than 80% of the battery).

But you could be right in that the UI governs the charge rate rather than the SOC of the actual battery, although I doubt it, but the only way to know is to try it...

The state of charge governs the charge rate. The vehicle knows it and slows the rate at the specific points. Period. Good luck with your experiment

 

[ExCivilian]

The state of charge governs the charge rate. The vehicle knows it and slows the rate at the specific points. Period. Good luck with your experiment

Exactly. I think we were speaking past one another. I'm not claiming the UI controls the charge rate--I'm pointing out the UI underestimates the SOC because the excess (inaccessible) capacity is not reflected in user accessible controls.

So in order to get it to a true 80% SOC you have to charge it beyond 80% on the UI. If you set it at 90%, however, it will tell you something like, "this will be done in 45 minutes (or whatever)."

If the Lightning allows increments smaller than 10% this won't matter, but it's like the ID4 (and the eGolf, not sure about other EVs) it will only have 10% increments so you need to set it to 90% to charge past 80%.

If you set it at 80% and it tells you it will be done in 30 minutes and then you set it at 90% and it tells you it will be done in 45 minutes, what you might not realize is if you set it at 90% but stop it sometime between 80-86% you'll likely find it only takes a few more minutes...because it's the 86-90 that takes an additional 15 minutes since, as you point out, it only starts slowing down at 80% SOC.

hope that clarifies but maybe it's only confused more. The issue here is the UI doesn't reflect the battery's SOC.

 

[RickLightning]

I'll restate my thinking. There is nothing you can do to change the charging speed of either the Mach-E or Lightning by manipulating the FordPass app. The vehicle's systems know the state of charge of the vehicle, and they tell the charger what it will accept. When it gets to 80% SOC as shown in both the vehicle and the app, it slows down.

 

[Maquis]

Now that we have a confirmed total capacity of the battery, I feel better about explaining something I learned with the ID4:

The charge limits for the ID4 were in 10% increments. I'm not sure whether the F150L's is also in 10% increments but if it is, you'll find this interesting if you want to get the maximum DCFC charge in the least time possible.

In the ID4 you'd basically charge it from 20-80% in around 20 minutes but then it would take another 10-15 mins to get it to 90% and a full half hour longer to get to 100%. Assuming the total capacity was much larger than necessary for these early EVs I figured the same thing some here are thinking regarding 80% not really being 80%...but the next step up was 90%, which resulted in about 40 mins of charge time.

So what I would do was set it for 90% but then dial it back to 85% once it passed 86%. That would maintain the highest charging speed until the last % where the charge curve would start to slope down, which got me out of there pretty quickly with a higher charge than most *and* indicated to me 85% on the UI was really closer to 80% on the battery.

I plan on doing the same thing with the F150L unless it's got 5% increments.

The first problem is that charge limit settings only apply to level 2, not DCFC.

And I agree with Rick, the limit setting has no effect on charge rate.

 

[ExCivilian]

The first problem is that charge limit settings only apply to level 2, not DCFC.

You can't set a threshold for DCFC? That seems bizarre...

And I agree with Rick, the limit setting has no effect on charge rate.

Again, this is a fundamental misunderstanding of what I'm describing.

I am not claiming that the limit setting impacts the charge rate.

The SOC impacts the charge rate--the UI does not represent the battery's SOC, however, which is why you'd need to mess with the limit setting to charge it to the battery's 80% SOC without going too far.

 

[Maquis]

You can't set a threshold for DCFC? That seems bizarre...

Again, this is a fundamental misunderstanding of what I'm describing.

I am not claiming that the limit setting impacts the charge rate.

The SOC impacts the charge rate--the UI does not represent the battery's SOC, however, which is why you'd need to mess with the limit setting to charge it to the battery's 80% SOC without going too far.

When you DCFC, the step change drop occurs at 80% displayed SOC. I’ve watched it happen. Just forget about the % charge of the true capacity…..it’s not worth it.

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