Did Tesla get Gov't money for opening NACS? Also NEVI is disappointingly slow

[luebri]

Well you are partially wrong. Existing sites do matter as part of the program there is a mileage requirement.

So for an existing site to count it would either need to meet the requirements or if the proposal includes the site, it would need to be updated.

So while NEVI is not requiring an upgrade, if an existing site is planned to be counted in the corridor requirements, the contractor could propose it with an upgrade.

I was under the belief only brand new installs qualified. I have seen no evidence otherwise, but I could be wrong. Im 99% sure every location granted funding here in WI are brand new. Ironically the only 2 locations that Tesla was granted are within a mile or two of an existing V3 NACS supercharger, which would seem odd if they could of gotten funds via a retrofit.

Also Im fairly certain the distance between chargers calculation only considers CCS chargers so basically treating existing v3 superchargers (non magic docks) as non existent

 

[Maineiac12]

Why are we arguing this point? Does it really matter why they opened the network?

It was a smart business decision that I think we can all agree was a good thing. Elon might be a tool, but not everything he does is bad.

 

[Grease Lightning]

I was under the belief only brand new installs qualified. I have seen no evidence otherwise, but I could be wrong. Im 99% sure every location granted funding here in WI are brand new. Ironically the only 2 locations that Tesla was granted are within a mile or two of an existing V3 NACS supercharger, which would seem odd if they could of gotten funds via a retrofit.

Also Im fairly certain the distance between chargers calculation only considers CCS chargers so basically treating existing v3 superchargers (non magic docks) as non existent

In Oregon ODOT helped with the analysis and have to comply with the NEVI requirements and at the time they required CCS because NACS was an offer of a standard, but part of a closed network. With Elon opening up his network, he basically became eligible but would still need CCS, hence the magic dock SCs.

Oregon added this to their NEVi RFP to capture NACS…

So forward thinking states are trying to cover all current standards. So any NEVI site build in Oregon will have CCS, NACS and CHADEMO.

I recall Tesla was one that did submit during the RFQ.

 

[luebri]

Why are we arguing this point? Does it really matter why they opened the network?

It was a smart business decision that I think we can all agree was a good thing. Elon might be a tool, but not everything he does is bad.

It bothers me when people state incorrect information. I think facts are important and like to know what is fact and what is fiction

Im not arguing, I'm genuinely trying to find the answer.

 

[luebri]

In Oregon ODOT helped with the analysis and have to comply with the NEVI requirements and at the time they required CCS because NACS was an offer of a standard, but part of a closed network. With Elon opening up his network, he basically became eligible but would still need CCS, hence the magic dock SCs.

Oregon added this to their NEVi RFP to capture NACS…

So forward thinking states are trying to cover all current standards. So any NEVI site build in Oregon will have CCS, NACS and CHADEMO.

I recall Tesla was one that did submit during the RFQ.

Not really relevant to the discussion about NACS access via adapter, but Yes I was aware of some states doing this. Though including NACS was not a requirement in Phase 1 here in WI the vast majority have them in their site proposal. The phase 1.5 request for proposal do now require it.

 

[Maineiac12]

It bothers me when people state incorrect information. I think facts are important and like to know what is fact and what is fiction

Im not arguing, I'm genuinely trying to find the answer.

It feels like you’re offended on behalf of Tesla for some reason. I don’t get why people fanboy for companies or celebrities. These people don’t care about us, only our money. Loyalty to any company is stupid.

 

[luebri]

It feels like you’re offended on behalf of Tesla for some reason. I don’t get why people fanboy for companies or celebrities. These people don’t care about us, only our money. Loyalty to any company is stupid.

I’m Just calling balls and strikes with the info I have.

I agree with your comments 100% regarding company loyalty.

 

[electricpig]

The impediments you bring up though valid are in many ways self induced, by other areas of government waste.

You stated NEVI, and I and others have shown how that can't be concluded at this time. Just because you don't like the answer isn't my problem. Reality is different from what you stated. I'm done with you as you obviously have made up your mind and will not change it. So this is a waste of time

 

[Firn]

FYI. Inflation Reducation Act and as a part of it the NEVI program was signed into law on August 16, 2022. 2+ years. Less than 10 chargers.

Nobody is "ok" with that, we all wish it were better. We are also realists however and understand that government is SLOOOOW.

The states need to put this together and the people doing this still have their original jobs. They need to convene and generate a plan, that has to be reviewed, both by state representatives and by things like lawyers. Then there has to be time to take responses, and just because you announce something doesn't mean EVERYONE knows about it immediately. Then their will be solicitation, unless you want to government just handing they money to Joe bobs uncles cousin. Then that has to be executed, and oh yeah, there are things like budget cycles. After that there are contracts, which for "little" ones take at least 6 months of effort. Oh, and during this sites need to be arranged, unless there is a plan to put chargers on land you don't have. And then after that you have local government and regulations. You have specialized sub-contracts to venders who can do one specific component.

Yeah, we all want it to be better, but this IS the real world. This isn't two guys writing something down, putting pins in a map on the wall saying "here", and then handing a few dozen million over to their buddies.

 

[electricpig]

Nobody is "ok" with that, we all wish it were better. We are also realists however and understand that government is SLOOOOW.

The states need to put this together and the people doing this still have their original jobs. They need to convene and generate a plan, that has to be reviewed, both by state representatives and by things like lawyers. Then there has to be time to take responses, and just because you announce something doesn't mean EVERYONE knows about it immediately. Then their will be solicitation, unless you want to government just handing they money to Joe bobs uncles cousin. Then that has to be executed, and oh yeah, there are things like budget cycles. After that there are contracts, which for "little" ones take at least 6 months of effort. Oh, and during this sites need to be arranged, unless there is a plan to put chargers on land you don't have. And then after that you have local government and regulations. You have specialized sub-contracts to venders who can do one specific component.

Yeah, we all want it to be better, but this IS the real world. This isn't two guys writing something down, putting pins in a map on the wall saying "here", and then handing a few dozen million over to their buddies.

OP says those things are just self inflicted waste! Checks and balances don't matter. Just give Tesla all the money so their share price goes up.

Thing is, you absolutely don't one dominant player. Tesla got an exemption they should not have gotten IMHO to qualify for NEVI funding. Requirements stated that chargers had to support 200-800V architecture. Well Tesla is 500V only, and so do not support the requirements. Hence the Kia/Hyundai type vehicles only get about 100kW charging on Tesla chargers.

One advantage Tesla almost certainly does have currently is that they almost certainly have a standing order pipeline for transformers of a certain model(s) making deployment for csome site quicker.With that said, I haven't seen any NEVI awarded Tesla sites go up yet either There are I think two of these in my state, and Tesla has yet to do jack squat. What's more, there are many sites approved and permitted for many months, that Tesla seems unable to fulfill in any way. Guess they aren't so perfect after all. Seems the knee jerk tantrum firing of the entire supercharger team has an actual detrimental impact after all.

 

[Maineiac12]

OP says those things are just self inflicted waste! Checks and balances don't matter. Just give Tesla all the money so their share price goes up.

Thing is, you absolutely don't one dominant player. Tesla got an exemption they should not have gotten IMHO to qualify for NEVI funding. Requirements stated that chargers had to support 200-800V architecture. Well Tesla is 500V only, and so do not support the requirements. Hence the Kia/Hyundai type vehicles only get about 100kW charging on Tesla chargers.

One advantage Tesla almost certainly does have currently is that they almost certainly have a standing order pipeline for transformers of a certain model(s) making deployment for csome site quicker.With that said, I haven't seen any NEVI awarded Tesla sites go up yet either There are I think two of these in my state, and Tesla has yet to do jack squat. What's more, there are many sites approved and permitted for many months, that Tesla seems unable to fulfill in any way. Guess they aren't so perfect after all. Seems the knee jerk tantrum firing of the entire supercharger team has an actual detrimental impact after all.

This Tesla NEVI site went online this month, so it is happening.

 

[Maineiac12]

Don’t get me wrong, I’m no Tesla fan. But their chargers are one bright spot. I know when I pull into a supercharger that it’s going to work and I can’t say that about the CCS network, unfortunately. I hope the other providers get their shit together soon.

 

[Newton]

Having worked on different types of standards for a major company, let me explain what I think Tesla opened up their charging network.

• At the moment, Tesla arguably has a monopoly on EV charging in the USA. It sounds absurd to say that in a Ford EV forum but I’m willing to bet that this statement is true under Justice Department standards. It would be no more absurd than claiming that a certain large company had a monopoly on operating systems if you really understood the operating system landscape of the time. This is a significant legal risk to Tesla even if they ultimately prevailed.
• Opening up the chargers to other EVs would probably be one of the remedies that the Justice department would demand in lieu of breaking up Tesla. It was pretty clear that this would happen eventually, better to do it when they have control and can charge money to the other automakers. In my opinion they have slow walked the roll out perfectly, just enough to take the issue off of the table but not enough to really affect their monopoly.
• In my opinion, Tesla was at an inflection point with their proprietary standard. The government was just about to invest a huge amount of money into CCS chargers that directly competed with their chargers and indirectly competed with their cars. I think they opened up their standard at just about the right time to maximize the value of their monopoly and kill the competing system. If they had waited any longer they would have ended up being the car with the weird charging port (see Nissan/CHAdeMO).
• Tesla got a cash infusion of unknown size from the other companies to do this.
• Tesla managed to “Osborne effect” (google it) everybody else - a significant number of people are not buying CCS cars because they are waiting for NACS. Ford fell into this trap. I can’t believe that they relied on Tesla to supply adapters that allow Ford to compete with the Cybertruck. A five-year-old could tell you what would happen.

Remember, Tesla considers themselves a tech company so all of the management is very famIliar with the events of 1998 and - crucially - the effects on the stock price of the affected company.

 

[potato]

This Tesla NEVI site went online this month, so it is happening.

I thought NEVI sites had to work with CCS. That screenshot says adapter required.

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