EV Charging Network Will Target Interstates Before Expanding Into Remote Rural and Crowded Urban Areas

[Tony Burgh]

Well, I was responding to your post:
“He's right though, it's a long, long, long time before renewables overtake fossil fuels. Most of us will be dead.”
So go ahead and pick any one of the three and give me a time frame by which you’d think renewables will be over 50%—that’s what I think you meant by “overtake”.
Don’t be shy now, think positive, think big, and great things are going to happen!

The average age of cars on the road two years ago was over 12 years. That’s a tribute to vehicle quality. I’ll bet the average is now higher with costs and availability being what they are.
So a complete elimination of ICE today will take until mid 30’s to get to 50% EV. Take into account resistance to change and I’ll repeat, 2040.

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[LightningShow]

Well, I was responding to your post:
“He's right though, it's a long, long, long time before renewables overtake fossil fuels. Most of us will be dead.”
So go ahead and pick any one of the three and give me a time frame by which you’d think renewables will be over 50%—that’s what I think you meant by “overtake”.
Don’t be shy now, think positive, think big, and great things are going to happen!

There’s too much existing infrastructure to make 50% of any subcategory plausible by 2040. Even 2050 is a stretch.

100% replacement? I’d say 2100.

 

[hturnerfamily]

as an EV owner, two Nissan Leafs/2014/2015 models for several years, and now even an electric 'hybrid' plug-in Kia Sorento, and having discussions with many folks who 'question' the validity and their 'fear' of how EVs actually work, I have some thoughts:

- homeowners have most all options when it comes to how they choose to 'charge' their EV, whether a simple 120v household outlet, an existing or addition of a 240v outlet, or even a 'bigger' dedicated hard-wired EVSE. The expense and decision is up to the owner.
- apartment dwellers will have the least options, if any, since they don't own the property, parking, or home electrical service. While it's o.k. to expect apartment landlords to eventually provide some type of option, the current environment does not offer apartment dwellers many options. While a very few very, very EV loving owners will choose to use DC Fast Charging alone, or will have some Level 2 option nearby, or along their travel paths, most interested EV onlookers in this situation will not be able to get past the 'where to charge' issue.
- townhome and condo owners may have a few more options, but it's likely they are very limited, as well. It's possible that 'new' builds of these neighborhoods might pre-wire or build-in these options, in garages, specifically.

Most experienced EV owners already know 'how' to handle charging, but those who do not yet own one aren't quite sure what to do - the hesitation is what is making the adoption difficult. The 'mystery' of electricity also has them on edge.

The more passersby see Tesla superChargers in use, and more and more other brands charging at EA and CHARGEPOINT and other stations, the more many will realize that it 'must' be possible. I've been approached many times simply while charging. People are inquisitive, hesitant, excited, and see the 'possibility', but don't understand the process. Most are also deeply concerned about 'what' will happen if power runs out while on the interstate', 'while down a lonely dark road, at night, in the rain, and their cellphone is dead'. Those problems are problems with any vehicle, but most never really come to the same 'fear' in their gas vehicle.

By the way, as I wait for my LIGHTNING to be built in a few months, I realize that FORD has decided to provide UNLIMITED help in those 'broke down' situations where the battery power has run 'out'. FREE towing to a nearby Charger, or FORD Dealer, or you HOME, whichever is closer. Now, I think THAT can help give new EV owners some peace of mind. It needs to be a much BIGGER advertisement from them.

 

[RickLightning]

as an EV owner, two Nissan Leafs/2014/2015 models for several years, and now even an electric 'hybrid' plug-in Kia Sorento, and having discussions with many folks who 'question' the validity and their 'fear' of how EVs actually work, I have some thoughts:

- homeowners have most all options when it comes to how they choose to 'charge' their EV, whether a simple 120v household outlet, an existing or addition of a 240v outlet, or even a 'bigger' dedicated hard-wired EVSE. The expense and decision is up to the owner.
- apartment dwellers will have the least options, if any, since they don't own the property, parking, or home electrical service. While it's o.k. to expect apartment landlords to eventually provide some type of option, the current environment does not offer apartment dwellers many options. While a very few very, very EV loving owners will choose to use DC Fast Charging alone, or will have some Level 2 option nearby, or along their travel paths, most interested EV onlookers in this situation will not be able to get past the 'where to charge' issue.
- townhome and condo owners may have a few more options, but it's likely they are very limited, as well. It's possible that 'new' builds of these neighborhoods might pre-wire or build-in these options, in garages, specifically.

Most experienced EV owners already know 'how' to handle charging, but those who do not yet own one aren't quite sure what to do - the hesitation is what is making the adoption difficult. The 'mystery' of electricity also has them on edge.

The more passersby see Tesla superChargers in use, and more and more other brands charging at EA and CHARGEPOINT and other stations, the more many will realize that it 'must' be possible. I've been approached many times simply while charging. People are inquisitive, hesitant, excited, and see the 'possibility', but don't understand the process. Most are also deeply concerned about 'what' will happen if power runs out while on the interstate', 'while down a lonely dark road, at night, in the rain, and their cellphone is dead'. Those problems are problems with any vehicle, but most never really come to the same 'fear' in their gas vehicle.

By the way, as I wait for my LIGHTNING to be built in a few months, I realize that FORD has decided to provide UNLIMITED help in those 'broke down' situations where the battery power has run 'out'. FREE towing to a nearby Charger, or FORD Dealer, or you HOME, whichever is closer. Now, I think THAT can help give new EV owners some peace of mind. It needs to be a much BIGGER advertisement from them.

Some Mach-E users have experience many hour waits for Ford's towing.

 

[sotek2345]

Some Mach-E users have experience many hour waits for Ford's towing.

I have experienced many hours of waiting for a tow for an ICE vehicle. I have read the stories and I am not sure that it being an EV really matters all that much except needing a flat bed.

 

[Nick Gerteis]

The average age of cars on the road two years ago was over 12 years. That’s a tribute to vehicle quality. I’ll bet the average is now higher with costs and availability being what they are.
So a complete elimination of ICE today will take until mid 30’s to get to 50% EV. Take into account resistance to change and I’ll repeat, 2040.

Sure, why not—that’s progress! From the post I was responding to: “we’ll all be dead “; I hope I and everyone else on here will still be very much, and happily, alive!

 

[Nick Gerteis]

There’s too much existing infrastructure to make 50% of any subcategory plausible by 2040. Even 2050 is a stretch.

100% replacement? I’d say 2100.

Time will tell, but this IS our equivalent of the Model T moment. Or IPhone moment. Or any other truly disruptive new technology. Usually happens pretty fast once it gets going, so I’ll stick to my earlier schedule. But if yours turns out to be correct I’ll certainly be happy too, that would still be great progress.

 

[shutterbug]

Gotcha - never lived in an apartment complex myself. The only apartments I ever lived in didn't have any parking (just had to find something on the street) so I am not that familiar.

As a follow up. This afternoon, I saw the following sign in a the garage of a luxury apartment complex.

This was posted next to a couple of free access Tesla Destination chargers. I think the Luxury apartments and condos will be the first to implement those, for a fee.

 

[TheVirtualTim]

As a follow up. This afternoon, I saw the following sign in a the garage of a luxury apartment complex.

This was posted next to a couple of free access Tesla Destination chargers. I think the Luxury apartments and condos will be the first to implement those, for a fee.

A friend of mine owns a Condo in Fort Lauderdale. His building has several Level 2 ChargePoint chargers ... but they are in the valet area. Anyone who wants to charge needs to have a ChargePoint account (so it isn't free charging. It was 10¢/kWh ... you use your own account to activate it). And the valet will move cars in and out of the EV charging stalls. Using the valet is probably a reasonable way to accommodate more owners (or their guests) without needing to install a charger for each unit in the building that needs to use one.

I think a valet might also make sense for places where long-term parking is used (airports or train stations, etc.). It doesn't seem reasonably that someone's car should occupy a charging stall for days ... or weeks.

 

[greenne]

I think a valet might also make sense for places where long-term parking is used (airports or train stations, etc.). It doesn't seem reasonably that someone's car should occupy a charging stall for days ... or weeks.

Or they could just offer a crapload of std 110v plugs and everyone trickle charges. It may take 3-4 days but if the car is in long term parking at the airport who cares how long it takes?

Reminds me of when I went on a roadtrip to Canada.. our hotel in Saskatchewan had plugs at every parking space for engine block heaters. Dozens of 110v outlets would be way cheaper than a few level 2 stations if time is not a concern.

 

[vandy1981]

Or they could just offer a crapload of std 110v plugs and everyone trickle charges. It may take 3-4 days but if the car is in long term parking at the airport who cares how long it takes?

This makes a lot of sense for parking structures in workplaces, airports, apartments, etc. Trickle charging is more than sufficient for most people's daily commutes in all but the most thirsty EVs (looking at you, Hummer EV).

I think we're going to see battery pack sizes on light vehicles peak in the next 3-5 years, so trickle charging will continue to be relevant in the future. Cars will travel farther on a kW, battery buffers will be smaller and charging speeds will continue to improve. People will realize that they don't need to have 300 miles of range when there's a fast charger every 50 miles on their route that can top off their car in 5 minutes.

 

[hturnerfamily]

Property owners have never yet had to concern themselves with this EV charging 'infrastructure' installation and costs before, so it's safe to assume that many will be hesitant, even if some of their renters are asking for it. I suspect that it will become more of a 'we have Charging options, so come and live Here!' advertisements, just like you saw 15 years ago the 'Free Wifi' advertisements take over the majority of HOTEL ads...
No one 'wants' to spend money just to build something they aren't sure will be used, or they can't charge an appropriate fee to justify, but as more and more EV buyers start to make their presence known, there will be more pressure for it to happen, or be left behind.

What I think 'should' happen is this: just like with the Lightning, EV manufacturers should be supplying the 240v EVSE option with EVERY vehicle - this would then allow the property owners to only need to supply the outlet, NOT the EVSE equipment. Property owners don't want the upkeep or maintenance on equipment, but a much simpler 240v outlet install would suffice for all of us. While security of your own Charger might be something to be concerned about, most all EVs have the built-in 'locking' of the Charger plug outlet on the vehicle.

 

[VTbuckeye]

This makes a lot of sense for parking structures in workplaces, airports, apartments, etc. Trickle charging is more than sufficient for most people's daily commutes in all but the most thirsty EVs (looking at you, Hummer EV).

I think we're going to see battery pack sizes on light vehicles peak in the next 3-5 years, so trickle charging will continue to be relevant in the future. Cars will travel farther on a kW, battery buffers will be smaller and charging speeds will continue to improve. People will realize that they don't need to have 300 miles of range when there's a fast charger every 50 miles on their route that can top off their car in 5 minutes.

As the cars get more efficient and can travel further on each kw the affect of cold weather will likely become more pronounced. Burning battery for heat is inefficient (even with a heat pump, particularly when the temperature gets very cold). Highway travel is less efficient than slower speed travel. This discussion is repeated often, but highway travel in the cold will continue to require big batteries for many drivers (not all). Stopping for 5 to 15 minutes every 200 miles would be ok for many, assuming that there are ample places to charge and no waiting for someone else to finish charging.

I don't want to tell people how it won't work, so with that in mind, battery density will improve, capacity will probably stay the same or go up a bit. Level 1 charging will be useful at long term parking locations in fair weather. My wife loves our EVs, but has pushed back against being entirely ice free for our infrequent traveling. The real key to this will be fast chargers at lots of locations and be plenty of 30 to 50 amp destination chargers where people will stay for many hours/overnight. Once "everybody" (most people) traveling want to plug in overnight at the hotel , the hotels will run out of charging spots, so another hurtle to overcome. As I think about t by is more faster charging is probably the key for traveling.

 

[shutterbug]

most all EVs have the built-in 'locking' of the Charger plug outlet on the vehicle.

I don't know about "most", but MME does not. Have to assume Lightning won't either.

 

[shutterbug]

A friend of mine owns a Condo in Fort Lauderdale. His building has several Level 2 ChargePoint chargers ... but they are in the valet area. Anyone who wants to charge needs to have a ChargePoint account (so it isn't free charging. It was 10¢/kWh ... you use your own account to activate it). And the valet will move cars in and out of the EV charging stalls. Using the valet is probably a reasonable way to accommodate more owners (or their guests) without needing to install a charger for each unit in the building that needs to use one.

I think a valet might also make sense for places where long-term parking is used (airports or train stations, etc.). It doesn't seem reasonably that someone's car should occupy a charging stall for days ... or weeks.

I don't think valets work for free, so that's added cost. Also you have to hand the valet your key AND your phone, so that they can activate charging.

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