F-150 Lightning EV Tax Credits & Rebates - Discussions & Predictions

[greenne]

The new credit would be refundable. There is also a point-of-sale structure in subsection B (TRANSFER OF CREDIT) but it looks like it won't be effective until 1/1/2023 the way I'm reading it.

I was specifically looking for valid dates, but got lost in there(on which section was which).

The way I read it..the credit would be valid for vehicles purchased after Dec 31, 2021 (i.e. next year) but the point of sale part isn't valid until Jan 1, 2023.

So for purchases in 2022..would you just have to claim on your tax return and get a HUGE refund?

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[vandy1981]

So for purchases in 2022..would you just have to claim on your tax return and get a HUGE refund?

If I'm reading it correctly, yes. Since it would be refundable you would qualify for the credit regardless of your tax liability.

 

[Peanutsparisinsyrup]

I was given an unsupported rumor from someone working in the auto industry today about all of this. It seems a little too detailed to be true. I figured I would share it here:

• Apparently Ford is scrambling to make sure the Lariat is well within whatever EV credits congress passes. They want to make sure they don't end up locking customers into a price only to have them not able to get the EV credit and/or not being able to take a chunk of it as profit. The internal pricing is already mostly sorted out but they haven't decided which options and packages will be standard and at what price.
• Production timelines due to chip shortages have slipped well into August/October for the lightning.
• Battery efficiency is much better than EPA targets because of fears over range while under load. There was concern at Ford that there would be backlash for low range while the truck is carrying loads for contractors. Especially in cold weather.
• Most of the Ford marketing teams are focused on "proving" the Lightning works to regular F-150 buyers with combustion engines. There is little interest to market to people who want to buy EVs in this generation of the lightning. They expect the scarcity of the product will drive demand for consumer buyers who want a "Different" F-150. This was backed by data collected from raptor sales.
• For their commercial crowd they are hoping to leverage financial incentives from maintenance and the government as what will drive sales. IE they don't have much faith in the endurance of the truck being useful to most contractors in its current state. Instead it makes sense due to government incentives.

Who knows if it's all true (likely no). We'll see what happens if the EV credits pass congress I guess.

 

[sotek2345]

I was given an unsupported rumor from someone working in the auto industry today about all of this. It seems a little too detailed to be true. I figured I would share it here:

• Apparently Ford is scrambling to make sure the Lariat is well within whatever EV credits congress passes. They want to make sure they don't end up locking customers into a price only to have them not able to get the EV credit and/or not being able to take a chunk of it as profit. The internal pricing is already mostly sorted out but they haven't decided which options and packages will be standard and at what price.
• Production timelines due to chip shortages have slipped well into August/October for the lightning.
• Battery efficiency is much better than EPA targets because of fears over range while under load. There was concern at Ford that there would be backlash for low range while the truck is carrying loads for contractors. Especially in cold weather.
• Most of the Ford marketing teams are focused on "proving" the Lightning works to regular F-150 buyers with combustion engines. There is little interest to market to people who want to buy EVs in this generation of the lightning. They expect the scarcity of the product will drive demand for consumer buyers who want a "Different" F-150. This was backed by data collected from raptor sales.
• For their commercial crowd they are hoping to leverage financial incentives from maintenance and the government as what will drive sales. IE they don't have much faith in the endurance of the truck being useful to most contractors in its current state. Instead it makes sense due to government incentives.

Who knows if it's all true (likely no). We'll see what happens if the EV credits pass congress I guess.

All of the that makes logical sense, but the second bullet is concerning - that would back up timelines for everyone, not just folks who were looking for a 2022 truck. That would also be a VERY short 2022 model year.

If that is true, I wonder if Ford would build and park the trucks to install chips later and ship much higher quantities when they can

 

[EVBill]

I was given an unsupported rumor from someone working in the auto industry today about all of this. It seems a little too detailed to be true. I figured I would share it here:

• Apparently Ford is scrambling to make sure the Lariat is well within whatever EV credits congress passes. They want to make sure they don't end up locking customers into a price only to have them not able to get the EV credit and/or not being able to take a chunk of it as profit. The internal pricing is already mostly sorted out but they haven't decided which options and packages will be standard and at what price.
• Production timelines due to chip shortages have slipped well into August/October for the lightning.
• Battery efficiency is much better than EPA targets because of fears over range while under load. There was concern at Ford that there would be backlash for low range while the truck is carrying loads for contractors. Especially in cold weather.
• Most of the Ford marketing teams are focused on "proving" the Lightning works to regular F-150 buyers with combustion engines. There is little interest to market to people who want to buy EVs in this generation of the lightning. They expect the scarcity of the product will drive demand for consumer buyers who want a "Different" F-150. This was backed by data collected from raptor sales.
• For their commercial crowd they are hoping to leverage financial incentives from maintenance and the government as what will drive sales. IE they don't have much faith in the endurance of the truck being useful to most contractors in its current state. Instead it makes sense due to government incentives.

Who knows if it's all true (likely no). We'll see what happens if the EV credits pass congress I guess.

The second bullet point will have me taking a close look at the Chevrolet Silverado EV reveal at CES in early January. That vehicle is expected to have a 400 mile range instead of the 300 the lightning has with its extended range pack.

 

[astricklin]

All of the that makes logical sense, but the second bullet is concerning - that would back up timelines for everyone, not just folks who were looking for a 2022 truck. That would also be a VERY short 2022 model year.

If that is true, I wonder if Ford would build and park the trucks to install chips later and ship much higher quantities when they can

I honestly don't forsee the chip issue delaying the lightning unless Ford just really has some other reasons to delay. Ford sells around 60,000 F series trucks A MONTH. They can take chips from a few thousand and divert them over to the lightning with minimal impact on the rest of the line.
With what's happened with the Bronco, I'd imagine that the executives at Ford are attempting to do everything they can to make this launch go smoothly. I'd have to argue that this launch is more important to the future of the company than the explorer from a couple years ago, the Bronco/Bronco sport, and the Maverick all combined.

 

[greenne]

I was given an unsupported rumor from someone working in the auto industry today about all of this. It seems a little too detailed to be true. I figured I would share it here:

• Apparently Ford is scrambling to make sure the Lariat is well within whatever EV credits congress passes. They want to make sure they don't end up locking customers into a price only to have them not able to get the EV credit and/or not being able to take a chunk of it as profit. The internal pricing is already mostly sorted out but they haven't decided which options and packages will be standard and at what price.
• Production timelines due to chip shortages have slipped well into August/October for the lightning.
• Battery efficiency is much better than EPA targets because of fears over range while under load. There was concern at Ford that there would be backlash for low range while the truck is carrying loads for contractors. Especially in cold weather.
• Most of the Ford marketing teams are focused on "proving" the Lightning works to regular F-150 buyers with combustion engines. There is little interest to market to people who want to buy EVs in this generation of the lightning. They expect the scarcity of the product will drive demand for consumer buyers who want a "Different" F-150. This was backed by data collected from raptor sales.
• For their commercial crowd they are hoping to leverage financial incentives from maintenance and the government as what will drive sales. IE they don't have much faith in the endurance of the truck being useful to most contractors in its current state. Instead it makes sense due to government incentives.

Who knows if it's all true (likely no). We'll see what happens if the EV credits pass congress I guess.

I can believe all of this. I DO think it is smart for Ford to reduce Lariat to squeeze people in under the MSRP cap vs having most of them downgrade to an XLT. I am sure things going on in Congress impacted the decision to delay announcements on price.

I attended the Ford EV tour for Fleet/commercial sales. Yes, they are hitting the theme of cost savings to small business. (Also better fleet management)

 

[Brian Head Yankee]

Or just add a higher level of features on the Lariat that comes in just under the cap. Lariat King Ranch?

 

[Sdctcher]

Or just add a higher level of features on the Lariat that comes in just under the cap. Lariat King Ranch?

Add Max Tow and Extended Battery for under $80K and I will jump at $12,500 rebate.

 

[adoublee]

• Most of the Ford marketing teams are focused on "proving" the Lightning works to regular F-150 buyers with combustion engines. There is little interest to market to people who want to buy EVs in this generation of the lightning. They expect the scarcity of the product will drive demand for consumer buyers who want a "Different" F-150. This was backed by data collected from raptor sales.

I would question if this wasn't just the early focus, or if it is maintained after the response they received on the product and supposed significant expansion of production capabilities.

 

[Sdctcher]

I can believe all of this. I DO think it is smart for Ford to reduce Lariat to squeeze people in under the MSRP cap vs having most of them downgrade to an XLT. I am sure things going on in Congress impacted the decision to delay announcements on price.

I attended the Ford EV tour for Fleet/commercial sales. Yes, they are hitting the theme of cost savings to small business. (Also better fleet management)

Latest Tech Specs:

Standard and Options
Lariat Premium ($80,000) vs Platinum ($90,000)

Extended Range Battery Lariat Standard Platinum Standard

Wheels Lariat 20 Inch Platinum 22 Inch

Phone Key Lariat Option Platinum Standard

B & O Sound Lariat Regular Platinum Unleashed

Seats Lariat Leather Platinum Premium
Lariat No Massage Platinum Massage

Active Blue Cruise Lariat Option Platinum Standard

Tow/Max Tow Lariat Option Platinum Standard

I Need ER/Max Tow but Ford can keep everything else for the extra $10,000.

 

[EVBill]

Latest Tech Specs:

Standard and Options
Lariat Premium ($80,000) vs Platinum ($90,000)

Extended Range Battery Lariat Standard Platinum Standard

Wheels Lariat 20 Inch Platinum 22 Inch

Phone Key Lariat Option Platinum Standard

B & O Sound Lariat Regular Platinum Unleashed

Seats Lariat Leather Platinum Premium
Lariat No Massage Platinum Massage

Active Blue Cruise Lariat Option Platinum Standard

Tow/Max Tow Lariat Option Platinum Standard

I Need ER/Max Tow but Ford can keep everything else for the extra $10,000.

Your list would have a Lariat priced above the $74k to get the rebate. Max tow has already indicated it will not be available on Platinum as the 22 inch wheels make it such that the towing capability would be reduced. Overall there needs to be a Lariat package with the extended range battery and maximum tow package that is under $74k as that is a configuration that many would want.

 

[3putter]

Stepping back for some big picture: what does this framework that Biden announced yesterday have to do with the bill that has been working its way through Congress? Does that bill get scrapped for this new Biden bill and will this new bill have to start over in Congress?

 

[greenne]

Stepping back for some big picture: what does this framework that Biden announced yesterday have to do with the bill that has been working its way through Congress? Does that bill get scrapped for this new Biden bill and will this new bill have to start over in Congress?

The framework Biden announced is in this "bill". They are the same...

The framework is essentially the same House bill they have been working on for months now, with the stuff Manchin didn't like taken out(Paid Family leave, etc) and stuff adjusted on how to pay for it.

The 117 I posted was the "text" Pelosi announced that she is going to try to get everyone on board.

 

[personalt]

Almost sure its going to be refundable so liability won't matter.

Expecting people to have $12.5k liability would be ridiculous. Def a move in the wrong direction when one of the biggest criticisms of the current credit is it caters to the rich. So agree its probably refundable

Calling people with 12K in liability rich is offensive . We prefer the highly taxed. 12.5K in taxes is only 90K if married and 120K if single. In NJ that would be considered poor. Certainly too poor to afford a new 50K+ car. With 90K income as a single your take home is 60K. Rent would easily be 24K that doesnt leave much to eat. I dont want to turn this political but rebates/refunds that cut off at certain income levels have different effects for those that have high income only because they live in a high cost area.

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