Ford EV Software and Customer Service Woes

[GoodSam]

Platinum’s ability to get updates. The last (and only) one it received was 4.2.2.1 in May of last year

Is your 12V battery keeping a high state (80%+) of charge (shown after logging into your Ford.com account)? Was the replacement of the Battery Monitoring Sensor (BMS) done, CSP 23B70? @RickLightning mentioned that some updates may be downloaded successfully, but not able to install because of a weak battery.
There are other concerns like a weak Cell signal or perhaps Wi-fi, allowing Ford connectivity, and see other requirements below:

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[Henry Ford]

I hear you but Apple and Samsung don't make cars. So my point is there isn't really a single vehicle money can buy that does exactly what the consumer expectation on this is right now.

Tesla would be closest but they have a lot of issues in different areas.

I'm a Lions fan, also a Ford product, by the way. They've been mismanaged my entire life and their on field performance has reflected that fact more often than not. There aren't any rules that say the Lions have to be awful. They were awful because of decisions ownership made, mostly that they were cheap. If Ford Motor Company doesn't want to be the Steelers or Patriots they will be the Lions.

Despite my tortured analogy I don't think FoMoCo is destined to be the Lions. They've actually been pretty forward thinking but they have a lot of legacy constraints to progress. If you started a car company tomorrow it wouldn't look like Ford. They have to get to where they are going from where they are not where they wish they were.

The Lightning has 50+ modules that interact with each other but have to be individually programmed and Ford doesn't necessarily own the code on all of them. This makes software changes challenging.That's what you get when you start with an F150. I bet the T3 architecture looks very different.

Even with the challenges of updating Lightning it is possible and there's a lot of room for improvement.

 

[Newton]

The Lightning has 50+ modules that interact with each other but have to be individually programmed and Ford doesn't necessarily own the code on all of them. This makes software changes challenging.That's what you get when you start with an F150. I bet the T3 architecture looks very different.

That is true of any software company. Even Microsoft doesn't own all the code that they deal with, every computer has a different BIOS, every printer's software is different, display adapters are different, browsers are radically different, etc. What makes it work as well as it does are standards so that you have some chance of writing a program that will usually work with most products. I don't know if there is anything other than CANBUS in the automotive industry, like is there a standard for communicating with a brake controller?

The advantage an automaker has is that they control what is put into the truck, so the situation that Ford is in is really not nearly as complex as the software that we all expect to work nowdays.

 

[Slick68]

What is the dealer doing for you? They have the ability to manually update every module on the truck. The tricky part is figuring out which modules correspond with which updates. In my experience, dealers know nothing about specific updates.

That’s a question I have. I, like a lot of you on this Forum am way behind on OA updates. Hell, it took over a week after I was notified that 23-PU1024-6CH-AUD finally installed last night (even after unplugging the 12v battery, reinstalling it and attaching a charger). It kept telling me “installation was interrupted by another process”. Before this, the OA updates I did get loaded smoothly.

So a month or so ago I took my truck in for a recall service and ask them about installing the software “Priority Updates” everyone else seems to be getting, and I was told by the dealership “We can’t install software upgrades, those can only be sent over-the-air by Ford Motor Company on their internal schedule ”. This by a Ford Certified EV dealer. So how are other owners getting their software installed at dealerships!?!

 

[Henry Ford]

So a month or so ago I took my truck in for a recall service and ask them about installing the software “Priority Updates” everyone else seems to be getting, and I was told by the dealership “We can’t install software upgrades, those can only be sent over-the-air by Ford Motor Company on their internal schedule ”. This by a Ford Certified EV dealer. So how are other owners getting their software installed at dealerships!?!

Dealers can update modules but they don't have "update" packages. I'm not exactly sure why they can't do both, if I had to guess it has to do with the legacy architecture of auto computer systems.

When you switch from a carburetor to EFI you add a module, when you add electronic mirrors you add a module, etc. By the time you get to Lightning there are 50+ modules. An OTA update might need to touch half a dozen modules.

If a dealer knows which modules to update they can effectively do an OTA update. I'm not sure how they would know what modules to update. If there's a TSB for an issue they obviously have access to that. If an f150lightning.com member walks in they might be able to point them in the right direction. You could brut force it and update every module but that would take a looong time based on what FDRS users report.

It sounds like there's no master list of updates and modules. That indicates to me Ford doesn't want to pay dealers to do updates for them.

If you built a modern car from scratch you would probably have one or two master computers and updates would be relatively simple. Based on what I've read Tesla has something like this.

I'm no expert. I know what I do mostly from reading forums and talking to my buddy who's a Ford engineer. There are still huge gaps in my understanding and this post may reflect that.

 

[TaxmanHog]

Dealers can update modules but they don't have "update" packages. I'm not exactly sure why they can't do both, if I had to guess it has to do with the legacy architecture of auto computer systems.

When you switch from a carburetor to EFI you add a module, when you add electronic mirrors you add a module, etc. By the time you get to Lightning there are 50+ modules. An OTA update might need to touch half a dozen modules.

If a dealer knows which modules to update they can effectively do an OTA update. I'm not sure how they would know what modules to update. If there's a TSB for an issue they obviously have access to that. If an f150lightning.com member walks in they might be able to point them in the right direction. You could brut force it and update every module but that would take a looong time based on what FDRS users report.

It sounds like there's no master list of updates and modules. That indicates to me Ford doesn't want to pay dealers to do updates for them.

If you built a modern car from scratch you would probably have one or two master computers and updates would be relatively simple. Based on what I've read Tesla has something like this.

I'm no expert. I know what I do mostly from reading forums and talking to my buddy who's a Ford engineer. There are still huge gaps in my understanding and this post may reflect that.

In a nut shell you've covered it all.

Even some of the 6.x.x version have been reconfigured recently with module updates NOT covered in earlier release versions ie. 6.8.0 bringing the SOC numeric value to the battery SOC graph is one example.

 

[Mike G]

Dealers can update modules but they don't have "update" packages. I'm not exactly sure why they can't do both, if I had to guess it has to do with the legacy architecture of auto computer systems.

<Snip>

If a dealer knows which modules to update they can effectively do an OTA update. I'm not sure how they would know what modules to update. If there's a TSB for an issue they obviously have access to that. If an f150lightning.com member walks in they might be able to point them in the right direction. You could brut force it and update every module but that would take a looong time based on what FDRS users report.

It sounds like there's no master list of updates and modules. That indicates to me Ford doesn't want to pay dealers to do updates for them.

<Snip>

Ummm, say what now?

FDRS lists all available updates that are not hidden by dependency (more updates sometimes appear in the list after others in the list have been updated). FDRS versions of module updates often appear up to weeks before an OTA version might get offered to the truck. The OTA team operates on a completely different schedule than the FDRS team. In fact sometimes the update packages are crafted differently and what updates fine as an OTA has issues when done with FDRS...and vice-versa.

Unlike your phone, your truck is not always on and connected to the mothership to check on updates and report DTCs it has experienced.

'24 and '23 models will likely NOT get offered new feature updates before '22 models do (a la BC1.4). It's the same thing for MMEs. They work on getting OTAs crafted (normally) for older vehicles first. Why? Because a '24 model owner with the latest software already installed...doesn't need to be caught up as urgently as an older vehicle. We've seen this with '21 model MMEs that got the newer Sync UI (Sync 640 at the time) months before the same update rolled out for the '22 models...and the '23 models had it from the plant. So the '22 owners were a bit put out for a while until everything caught up. Sort of like middle-child syndrome.

There are situations where a vehicle was produced....and then sat for almost a year before being sold. That put many vehicles so behind that a dealer tech had to use FDRS to get the vehicle closer to being current before OTAs would start flowing. Everything that's done using FDRS is reported through the system. So dealerships don't get paid unless there is a valid diagnostic necessity to justify paying the tech the labor.

While on the lot before sale, dealers do not touch the OTA settings or setup a daily schedule for the vehicle to check for updates...and it's not going to check anyway until it's running and phones home to the mothership (Connected Services) to check in. It only does this when you drive it. And hopefully the 12V battery is being kept at a sufficient charge level (by driving the vehicle) so that when an update does download it can then install and not fail due to a low 12V battery.

Your 12V battery SOC can drop down to 45% overnight. Unless some recent update to the logic has changed things, (it's possible) most updates require a 12V battery SOC of 80% before they'll process. Again, this may have changed recently so that number might be off a bit.

I have a '22 Lightning and I do not have Charge Assist (Public Charging). After trying it on my MME I could care less if it ever installs. Can't use it in motion, doesn't show any chargers greater than 150kW (even if 350kW are available), and doesn't interact with the vehicle to precondition like the nav system does. I can start a charging session with the app on my phone, or press a button on the charger screen right after I've plugged in...so what's the point of this app anyway?

Don't want to wait? Convinced you're missing something? You can always get a Mongoose+, a 40A powersupply, and run FDRS on your Windows laptop to do any available updates yourself for $50 for a 72 hour license subscription. We get forum members taking that plunge every week or so.

Wanna do some light reading to see if there are some TSBs that might solve an issue you're having? You can check here. Tick the box to accept the disclaimer, pop in your VIN to restrict what shows up as relatively relatable to your vehicle and browse away.

 

[Henry Ford]

Ummm, say what now?

Is something I said wrong? I'm not trying to spread misinformation.

 

[Mike G]

Is something I said wrong? I'm not trying to spread misinformation.

Well dealer techs do have "update packages" since the same module updates that are sent as OTAs are also (99% of the time) an available module update that can be applied in FDRS.

And there is a "master list" of module updates specific to every VIN that can be viewed in FDRS or PTS.

As to why dealer techs don't do all the available updates in the list...it's about the benjamins....

 

[Henry Ford]

Well dealer techs do have "update packages" since the same module updates that are sent as OTAs are also (99% of the time) an available module update that can be applied in FDRS.

Right, but it's not a list of modules to be updated per an OTA, is it? In other words if someone walked into a dealer looking for the PaaK update the dealer wouldn't necessarily know which modules needed updating unless there was a TSB for the issue.

And there is a "master list" of module updates specific to every VIN that can be viewed in FDRS or PTS.

But the modules available for update don't necessarily correspond with an OTA update, right? There's no cross-reference that says OTA X requires modules A, B, and C to be updated?

A module might be updated for a variety of reasons that don't enhance the vehicle in any way.

As to why dealer techs don't do all the available updates in the list...it's about the benjamins....

I bet the dealers would be happy to do all available updates if someone would pay them to do it. Ford won't pay for it because they have an OTA process and owners won't pay for it because they respect the value of money.

 

[TaxmanHog]

 

[Mike G]

Right, but it's not a list of modules to be updated per an OTA, is it? In other words if someone walked into a dealer looking for the PaaK update the dealer wouldn't necessarily know which modules needed updating unless there was a TSB for the issue.

But the modules available for update don't necessarily correspond with an OTA update, right? There's no cross-reference that says OTA X requires modules A, B, and C to be updated?

A module might be updated for a variety of reasons that don't enhance the vehicle in any way.

I bet the dealers would be happy to do all available updates if someone would pay them to do it. Ford won't pay for it because they have an OTA process and owners won't pay for it because they respect the value of money.

Those modules do actually correspond. If you are having problems with PAAK and you had a RFA update that was available..the tech would very likely be directed by PTS (based on symptoms) to a SSM or TSB that instructs them to update the RFA module.

As for the cross reference. That's as accurate as knowledgeable volunteers keep it.

Software engineers aren't going to waste their time creating updates that don't fix or enhance something. If there's a new update available, there had to be a pretty good reason to go to the effort.

We've had forum members who did actually pay their dealer service departments to update everything.

 

[Henry Ford]

Software engineers aren't going to waste their time creating updates that don't fix or enhance something. If there's a new update available, there had to be a pretty good reason to go to the effort.

All updates do something but that "something" may or may not be useful to the truck owner and they may or may not correspond to an OTA. For instance, maybe Ford decides to release a special trim with a different splash screen. This would require an APIM update (I think, correct me if I'm wrong) with the option for the new splash screen. The update would be available to all vehicles but the new splash screen would only be turned on in new vehicles. There's no reason for anyone else to get the module update but it would show up as an update for dealers.

 

[Newton]

There's no reason for anyone else to get the module update but it would show up as an update for dealers.

And this is the road to chaos. Every difference creates a branch in the code, which has to be managed separately. Two months from now you have to do a build for the "non splash screen" version with the updated battery controller, the splash screen with the updated battery controller, the splash screen without the battery controller, and the non splash without the battery controller. If the splash screen caused a bug with the new battery controller (don't laugh, changing the screen color could crash Win95 in rare cases) you are now dealing with genetics rather than software.

 

[Henry Ford]

And this is the road to chaos. Every difference creates a branch in the code, which has to be managed separately. Two months from now you have to do a build for the "non splash screen" version with the updated battery controller, the splash screen with the updated battery controller, the splash screen without the battery controller, and the non splash without the battery controller. If the splash screen caused a bug with the new battery controller (don't laugh, changing the screen color could crash Win95 in rare cases) you are now dealing with genetics rather than software.

It's not as complicated as it sounds. A module update can an option for a feature without turning the feature on. In the above hypothetical, any vehicle could get the update with the splash screen but only vehicles that were shipped with the splash screen would actually see the feature. Everyone else would observe no change.

My point in the hypothetical situation is that a dealer would be wasting time and money updating a module you wouldn't use.

Whew, we are far down this rabbit hole.

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