Installing a Home Integration System for Intelligent Backup Power (without SunRun)

[hifixenthusiast]

By the way @hifixenthusiast , Did you have SunRun Install your system?

No, I did not. I used a local certified master electrician and the published SunRun SoPs. I completed the configuration following the SoPs with him present.

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[PungoteagueDave]

I had an awesome case manager from ford for 3 months and she called me back each week with any updates and even if there were none. Eventually she closed my ticket since it was deemed to be the responsibility of SunRun to add the equipment to the system. So while I am sure the ford rep may be great, it ultimately won’t matter. We are all hanging on SunRuns ability to support us.

Not necessarily. I've promised to stay quiet until they complete their process, but suffice it to say that SunRun has flown their top HIS engineer to my home twice, New Jersey to Florida, and two weeks ago, the engineer leading the HIS system group from Ford Dearborn flew here. They have both been in contact by email since, are available by text, arranged a teleconference with others in Ford engineering, arranged for my truck to go into the local dealer next week, when another Ford engineer will fly in from Dearborn to work on the truck.

Still don't have an operating HIS after an incredible saga, but am told by both Ford and SunRun engineering, at the highest levels, that they are on it, have diagnosed and understand the issues, and will resolve it. Meanwhile I haven't paid a penny for the system, which has now been installed twice, with great responsiveness from both sides. I remain hopeful that teh HIS will eventually work, but am now told that a software update to the truck is in the works based on the issues identified in my installation, and until it is available later this year, I am "on hold" for both payment and resolution.

This was escalated, according to SunRun, but my prior participation on this forum, describing the issues and history, and I have promised them that I will remain as before - knowing this is bleeding edge tech, I am happy to make my truck and (generic) home available to them, with a smile, until resolved, and will refrain from detailed posting here until we either solve it or give up and they buy back the truck and remove the HIS. In my case, that answer is likely to take until November, as we are leaving the property on April 26, and won't be back until November. They indicated in an update phone call last Friday that it is unlikely that the software update to the truck will be complete by the time we leave, are okay with holding everything in abeyance until we get back in November. Meanwhile the truck will go in next week so that the OTA update problem can be resolved, apparently unrelated, but on their plate, as none of the Ford reps have been able to solve that either despite applying all the known fixes and tricks, like trying to do it on a charger, while jumped to another car, etc..

One piece of news that I can share - I asked the Ford engineer during his visit whether the bi-directional capability provided through the HIS/charging system would possibly work with the new bi-directional vehicles from other manufacturers. The answer is no. The Ford/SunRun HIS is proprietary, relies on software handshakes and other features that make it functional only with Ford vehicles. So those of us who are committed (I'm only halfway in given current nonworking status and nonpayment) to the Ford solution will be locked into Ford vehicles if we wish to continue using the system going forward.

More info to come as we proceed, but for now, I'm giving Ford and SunRun all the time they need before providing a more detailed outline of the saga we've been through with this. No names, numbers, emails, etc.

 

[yed19]

Not necessarily. I've promised to stay quiet until they complete their process, but suffice it to say that SunRun has flown ...

I mean we have evidence above of someone who got this to work. My whole system works except for the Fordpass App functionality. I think we all are running into various issues. My originial issue was my CT clamps being placed in the Critical Loads Panel and not the main. The one constant for many of us is the Fordpass app still not functioning properly like @hifixenthusiast above got to finally work. While this is good news that someone could finally share a screenshot, I believe what we are dealing with is a issue with one of the "handshakes". If Ford or SunRun actually escalated the issue for Non-SunRun customers it would be great. Pretty simple to determine a root cause. FordPass software runs a check for serial numbers on equipment that has been installed against some database somewhere. When we call to get that equipment registered through SunRun, it never makes it into that database. I am assuming that they makes updates weekly or so. I was told to wait a week by SunRun.

 

[v2h8484]

Still don't have an operating HIS after an incredible saga, but am told by both Ford and SunRun engineering, at the highest levels, that they are on it, have diagnosed and understand the issues, and will resolve it.

Can you share summary of the key issues?

One piece of news that I can share - I asked the Ford engineer during his visit whether the bi-directional capability provided through the HIS/charging system would possibly work with the new bi-directional vehicles from other manufacturers. The answer is no. The Ford/SunRun HIS is proprietary, relies on software handshakes and other features that make it functional only with Ford vehicles. So those of us who are committed (I'm only halfway in given current nonworking status and nonpayment) to the Ford solution will be locked into Ford vehicles if we wish to continue using the system going forward.

That's pretty disappointing. Any idea if they plan to follow open standards in the future?

 

[PungoteagueDave]

I mean we have evidence above of someone who got this to work. My whole system works except for the Fordpass App functionality. I think we all are running into various issues. My originial issue was my CT clamps being placed in the Critical Loads Panel and not the main. The one constant for many of us is the Fordpass app still not functioning properly like @hifixenthusiast above got to finally work. While this is good news that someone could finally share a screenshot, I believe what we are dealing with is a issue with one of the "handshakes". If Ford or SunRun actually escalated the issue for Non-SunRun customers it would be great. Pretty simple to determine a root cause. FordPass software runs a check for serial numbers on equipment that has been installed against some database somewhere. When we call to get that equipment registered through SunRun, it never makes it into that database. I am assuming that they makes updates weekly or so. I was told to wait a week by SunRun.

There's apparently more to it than that - and some installations do work when isolated from nearby wifi or mesh networks. All of our trucks will require an OTA update to resolve inherent issues. Yours may work, but Ford has identified "environment" issues in communication between the truck and the charger that will require all of us to have revised software.

Again, staying relatively silent here, but the issues surround interference from wifi signals external to the immediate installation - may happen most when in a townhouse or condo area with lots of other signals according to Ford's engineers, but that is what causes instability - a system may run fine in generator mode for a few minutes or an hour, then crap out with a charger error showing on the truck. If auto-run capability is important to you (why else would we go through this?), my advice is to run your truck in generator mode for several days, turning it on and off, opening doors, accessing the charger via app, multiple grid connection shutoffs, etc., to ensure your installation is isolated from the newly identified issues and works robustly.

Ford was able to replicate some of the issues here by adding in adjacent signals (similar to those found infiltrating my home) at their test home HIS system at the Dearborn engineering labs. They are confident that an OTA update will resolve, I remain skeptical because errant signal interference from wifi and mesh networks in homes adjacent to or near mine being an identified issue, this seems to be hardware, shielding, to my unsophisticated mind. But they are confident that it can be fixed with software, and I remain an otherwise patient and happy Lightning owner, absent this issue, the FordPass connectivity issue, and the OTA download problem that they think will be solved by their tech flying in next week.

 

[PungoteagueDave]

Can you share summary of the key issues?




That's pretty disappointing. Any idea if they plan to follow open standards in the future?

See post above. There is a LOT of detail but I promised to give them space and time...

With respect to the open/closed question, according to Ford's top HIS engineer, this system is not designed to be open standard or generically support bidirectional charging outside of the Ford environment.

If we think about how many places it touches/communicates at every generating event, this seems like an insurmountable hurdle. Every time it goes into generator mode there is communication between the truck, the charger, the HIS/inverter, the SunRun mothership, the Ford mothership, the dark start battery, the main switch, and if you want, your FordPass app. That's at least six points of integration and software compatibility that must all be in synch for the system to boot into generating mode, probably more like eight. No wonder it takes up to two minutes to come on! My old school propane generator at the farm does it in a few seconds at most, but there's an awful lot going on in the HIS process that takes time and verification at servers, etc. So no, and only from this layman's perspective educated by a specific question about this with the one most senior person who would know, the whole thing is proprietary and will likely stay that way.

 

[hifixenthusiast]

There's apparently more to it than that - and some installations do work when isolated from nearby wifi or mesh networks. All of our trucks will require an OTA update to resolve inherent issues. Yours may work, but Ford has identified "environment" issues in communication between the truck and the charger that will require all of us to have revised software.

Again, staying relatively silent here, but the issues surround interference from wifi signals external to the immediate installation - may happen most when in a townhouse or condo area with lots of other signals according to Ford's engineers, but that is what causes instability - a system may run fine in generator mode for a few minutes or an hour, then crap out with a charger error showing on the truck. If auto-run capability is important to you (why else would we go through this?), my advice is to run your truck in generator mode for several days, turning it on and off, opening doors, accessing the charger via app, multiple grid connection shutoffs, etc., to ensure your installation is isolated from the newly identified issues and works robustly.

Ford was able to replicate some of the issues here by adding in adjacent signals (similar to those found infiltrating my home) at their test home HIS system at the Dearborn engineering labs. They are confident that an OTA update will resolve, I remain skeptical because errant signal interference from wifi and mesh networks in homes adjacent to or near mine being an identified issue, this seems to be hardware, shielding, to my unsophisticated mind. But they are confident that it can be fixed with software, and I remain an otherwise patient and happy Lightning owner, absent this issue, the FordPass connectivity issue, and the OTA download problem that they think will be solved by their tech flying in next week.

Very interesting. Please keep us posted on your progress. I personally haven't experienced those issues. My home is relatively isolated, however I do have relatively complex network which includes several WIFI 6 capable access points. Everything has been working fine for my installation now, to include the application functionality as mentioned in my earlier post. There is still a nuance with the BDI producing alarms regarding not having an LG Chem battery connected. This was supposed to be fixed by an MPro app update a couple months ago. The app update allows you to change the BDI "state". When you complete that step the battery alarms go away, but so does the ability for the system to monitor power flow over the CTs. So... the update might have fixed the alarm issue, but unfortunately it created a new issue by disabling the CTs. The CTs are required for the system to monitor power flow and function. Having the alarms present doesn't impact system operations.

 

[Kman]

I got my HIS system installed this week, and FINALLY got the truck connected to the charger today. Flipped the main breaker to test it, and nothing. Not sure what the problem is, was too tired to troubleshoot it today.
Someone mentioned above you have to “register” the system with Sunrun for it to work? Is that true?

 

[yed19]

I got my HIS system installed this week, and FINALLY got the truck connected to the charger today. Flipped the main breaker to test it, and nothing. Not sure what the problem is, was too tired to troubleshoot it today.
Someone mentioned above you have to “register” the system with Sunrun for it to work? Is that true?

The system should cut over without registering it. I would suggest making sure the ct clamps are on the main panel and not the critical load panel.

 

[Kman]

Ok, tested the HIS system again again today. No luck. Truck screen says”preparing to provide power” but nothing happens. Tried a few times in manual mode, gives a “please wait” screen and times out.
Charger LED lights are green, truck LED lights at the charger port are white.
System is getting power from the dark start battery, 9.7V I think. Disconnected it a few times to simulate powering it off and on, still no luck.
The 5 lights on the inverter, the first and third light are a slow blinking green. No legend that I am aware of to say if this is normal or not.
Tried repositioning the truck to get the back passenger seat as close as possible to the charger, probably 10ft away, that’s as close as I can get.
The CT’s are still located in the BDI box, which my electrician and a few other credible sources say is okay, and makes no difference. Everything else is per the manual. Electrician said he can relocate the Acrel meter to a junction box if I want, but he says it’s a fair amount of work and doesn’t see the point.
Only other thing is the BDI (and truck) are on Wi-Fi only, no data, since I’m outside the USA. All other commissioning went as normal, all firmware is up to date.
I'm stumped on other troubleshooting measures to try. Hoping the forum meta verse can give some suggestions, otherwise I’ll have to reach out to Sunrun directly, but it sounds like it can take weeks of jumping through hoops before you reach someone who knows what they are talking about. What a frustrating process!

 

[hifixenthusiast]

Ok, tested the HIS system again again today. No luck. Truck screen says”preparing to provide power” but nothing happens. Tried a few times in manual mode, gives a “please wait” screen and times out.
Charger LED lights are green, truck LED lights at the charger port are white.
System is getting power from the dark start battery, 9.7V I think. Disconnected it a few times to simulate powering it off and on, still no luck.
The 5 lights on the inverter, the first and third light are a slow blinking green. No legend that I am aware of to say if this is normal or not.
Tried repositioning the truck to get the back passenger seat as close as possible to the charger, probably 10ft away, that’s as close as I can get.
The CT’s are still located in the BDI box, which my electrician and a few other credible sources say is okay, and makes no difference. Everything else is per the manual. Electrician said he can relocate the Acrel meter to a junction box if I want, but he says it’s a fair amount of work and doesn’t see the point.
Only other thing is the BDI (and truck) are on Wi-Fi only, no data, since I’m outside the USA. All other commissioning went as normal, all firmware is up to date.
I'm stumped on other troubleshooting measures to try. Hoping the forum meta verse can give some suggestions, otherwise I’ll have to reach out to Sunrun directly, but it sounds like it can take weeks of jumping through hoops before you reach someone who knows what they are talking about. What a frustrating process!

1.) It is really easy to validate that the CTs are working within the MPRO mobile application that was used to configure the system. If you aren’t familiar, I can provide a step-by-step guide. You will need to be right next to the BDI, as it uses Bluetooth. I also left the CTs installed in the default location. However, if the system isn’t configured correctly you won’t see power flow across them in the MPRO application.

2.) Ensure the connectivity has been activated in the MPRO application.

3.) Regarding the flashing lights, you can check for status and error messages using the MPRO application as well.

4.) I would also ensure you are shutting down the main service breaker for at least 5 minutes. Both the Charger and the BDI have to lose power simultaneously.

5.) You can also use the MPRO app while testing to help troubleshoot.

I hope this helps.

 

[hifixenthusiast]

1.) It is really easy to validate that the CTs are working within the MPRO mobile application that was used to configure the system. If you aren’t familiar, I can provide a step-by-step guide. You will need to be right next to the BDI, as it uses Bluetooth. I also left the CTs installed in the default location. However, if the system isn’t configured correctly you won’t see power flow across them in the MPRO application.

2.) Ensure the connectivity has been activated in the MPRO application.

3.) Regarding the flashing lights, you can check for status and error messages using the MPRO application as well.

4.) I would also ensure you are shutting down the main service breaker for at least 5 minutes. Both the Charger and the BDI have to lose power simultaneously.

5.) You can also use the MPRO app while testing to help troubleshoot.

I hope this helps.

Here is an example:

 

[Kman]

thanks for the info. I will retest tonight and double check everything in the MPRO app. Fingers crossed it's a wrong setting and we get it working.

 

[hifixenthusiast]

thanks for the info. I will retest tonight and double check everything in the MPRO app. Fingers crossed it's a wrong setting and we get it working.

Sounds good, please keep us posted. Good luck!

 

[Kman]

Some small progress but still not there.
I double checked all settings in MPRO app and everything seems to be up-to-date and correct. Only thing is energy/power flow readings show 0, but I assume that is because the CT's are not connected to the main panel?
I still don't get why the running mode says "solar only" as I have no solar or power storage, but i guess this is normal?
Plugged in the truck and flipped the main breaker, and a minute later it attempted to transfer. Truck charge port LED's went green, 5-lights on the inverter changed (light 3-green, light 4-orange, light 5 red). Power Flow readings showed power going from the truck to the house of -84W. This lasted for about a minute, then shutdown and Running Status went to "ERROR (3)". The backup loads never received power during that time.
I just looked at the troubleshooting guide for the BDI, and it shows the same ERROR (3), saying to disable EMS will clear the errors.
So I will try that when I go home this evening. Any other input or suggestions are certainly appreciated.