Range Without Payload?

[gorwell]

My guess is that we will see 270-300 miles range on the SR without a load

Not sure why so many people have their heads in the sand on this and think ford has some magical pixie dust they sprinkle on each truck to defy physics.

The battery is 98kwh for standard range.

The real world efficiency it could reasonably achieve with standard mixed driving is 2.32miles/kwh...

98x2.32 is.... Drum roll.... 227 miles...

Why 2.32 miles/kwh... That's what the r1t got in edmunds test and the Lightning is not going to be better, at best, on par.

In real world driving at only freeway speeds using ac/heat or in cold temps... That efficiency is going to sink well below 2.

30 degrees with heat running... expect 170 miles at best.

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[RickLightning]

Not sure why so many people have their heads in the sand on this and think ford has some magical pixie dust they sprinkle on each truck to defy physics.

The battery is 98kwh for standard range.

The real world efficiency it could reasonably achieve with standard mixed driving is 2.32miles/kwh...

98x2.32 is.... Drum roll.... 227 miles...

Why 2.32 miles/kwh... That's what the r1t got in edmunds test and the Lightning is not going to be better, at best, on par.

In real world driving at only freeway speeds using ac/heat or in cold temps... That efficiency is going to sink well below 2.

30 degrees with heat running... expect 170 miles at best.

Agree, except that AC really doesn't impact it much. The resistance heater does, and cold temps. Figure a 40%, or larger, drop in cold weather.

Cold weather also impact charging speed. As of now, the Mach-E has no way to precondition the battery for charging at a DC fast charger. And, the charger itself is affected by cold speeds. Charging speeds of 120kW (at peak for some time) have dropped to 1/2 that for some.

 

[metroshot]

Agree, except that AC really doesn't impact it much. The resistance heater does, and cold temps. Figure a 40%, or larger, drop in cold weather.

Cold weather also impact charging speed. As of now, the Mach-E has no way to precondition the battery for charging at a DC fast charger. And, the charger itself is affected by cold speeds. Charging speeds of 120kW (at peak for some time) have dropped to 1/2 that for some.

Weight definitely has an impact on range.
Single driver vs loaded 4 pax means a decrease in range.

Where I am located (desert hot southwest US), the AC is turned on way more days than cabin heatIng (zero) and AC uses 20% impact on range.

The most effect on reduction of range for my PHEV is the high speed driving on highways & freeways.

Best range is achieved thru: single occupant, no AC, no cabin heating, city driving with coasting, regen paddles, light braking, etc...

 

[gorwell]

Agree, except that AC really doesn't impact it much

Not as much but still a very clear impact.

Driving in very cold temps and using heater can knock off 30-50% of range.

Driving in hot temps and using AC can knock off 15-30%.

EV efficiency at temps can be found here https://www.geotab.com/blog/ev-range/

I live in a climate where cold isn't the issue, but heat is with summer having a fair amount of 100f+ days which is going to keep getting worse over time.

Driving in 100f losses a little less than 20% of range.

 

[Maquis]

Keep in mind that the published range is derived using EPA test conditions, just like ICE MPG. Ford cannot randomly decide “let’s throw a half ton payload in the bed and use those numbers.”

 

[greenne]

Keep in mind that the published range is derived using EPA test conditions, just like ICE MPG. Ford cannot randomly decide “let’s throw a half ton payload in the bed and use those numbers.”

Ford can request the EPA downgrade(decrease) the range. They did this with the Mach E, it actually tested higher on EPA tests..Ford asked the EPA to rate it slightly lower.

https://insideevs.com/reviews/520484/mustang-mach-e-range-test/
" Another interesting fact is that Ford voluntarily derates the range rating that the EPA publishes. The actual range tests came up with 276 miles (444 km) for the Mach-E extended range AWD, but Ford told the EPA they wanted it listed at 270 miles (434 km), 6 miles less than the results that actual testing delivered. "

" Testing for the standard range AWD Mach-E produced a range of 216 miles (348 km), 5 miles more than the 211 miles (340 km) that Ford asked the EPA to publish. We suspect that Ford just wanted to manage customer expectations, realizing that there are a lot of factors that can affect the real-world driving range, so they decided to underpromise and hopefully, over-deliver.

Ford may decide to do the same with the Lightning... underpromise and over-deliver....which means if they are saying 230/300mi.. it *MAY* get slightly more....or at the very least the highway range won't be such a hit...

 

[greenne]

As a practical matter.. multiple owners routinely exceed EPA range on the Mach E and multiple media range tests confirm. Hoping for a similar result on the Lightning, although a 2.3 mi/KWh efficiency would be amazing considering the vehicle size.

 

[bryan995]

The model Y exceeds 4.3mi/kWh - that is also not magic pixie dust. It is engineering and SOFTWARE. Range has been updated multiple times over the years, all via software. Yes the F150 will never come close, but Ford is for-sure shipping this with known inefficiencies that could be later improved. They are also playing it extremely safe as evidenced by the MachE estimates and accounting for a 1000lb payload. A 98kW pack is monstrous.

Our MY SR with a 55kW pack gets 260 miles.... surely the ford engineers can do better

 

[sotek2345]

Not sure why so many people have their heads in the sand on this and think ford has some magical pixie dust they sprinkle on each truck to defy physics.

The battery is 98kwh for standard range.

The real world efficiency it could reasonably achieve with standard mixed driving is 2.32miles/kwh...

98x2.32 is.... Drum roll.... 227 miles...

Why 2.32 miles/kwh... That's what the r1t got in edmunds test and the Lightning is not going to be better, at best, on par.

In real world driving at only freeway speeds using ac/heat or in cold temps... That efficiency is going to sink well below 2.

30 degrees with heat running... expect 170 miles at best.

Agreed. Payload just doesn't matter that much - especially on the highway (where range counts). Rolling resistance (driven by tire type, inflation, and load) is going to be somewhere between 20% and 30% of energy usage at highway speeds (likely on the lower end for a brick like the F150L). 1000lbs of payload is a ~13% of the total vehicle weight (base of 6,500lbs). So - the payload adds ~13% of ~20% to ~30% - or ~3% to 4% of total range. That is ~9 to 12 miles on a ER Lightning. Real word will be less than that because you have to have a driver anyways. This is a round off error that no one will notice in the real world. Set your cruise control 1 mph slower and it will impact your range more!

Edit - a good technical (but layman) breakdown of why it is aero resistance that matters and not rolling resistance - note that the Lighting will have a significantly higher drag coefficient (and frontal area) vs. the Tesla in this example.

 

[sotek2345]

The model Y exceeds 4.3mi/kWh - that is also not magic pixie dust. It is engineering and SOFTWARE. Range has been updated multiple times over the years, all via software. Yes the F150 will never come close, but Ford is for-sure shipping this with known inefficiencies that could be later improved. They are also playing it extremely safe as evidenced by the MachE estimates and accounting for a 1000lb payload. A 98kW pack is monstrous.

Our MY SR with a 55kW pack gets 260 miles.... surely the ford engineers can do better

The Model Y is also much smaller and far more aerodynamic. That is why drives efficiency - especially on the highway. Make it not look like a truck and you can get the numbers much higher.

 

[jefro]

Everyday new improvements to an EV can increase e-MPG for sure. I don't believe the F150 can be made to get better than 3 mile/kwh at 70mph unless it is 5 feet behind an 18 wheeler.

 

[sotek2345]

Everyday new improvements to an EV can increase e-MPG for sure. I don't believe the F150 can be made to get better than 3 mile/kwh at 70mph unless it is 5 feet behind an 18 wheeler.

Even 2 is pushing it, 1 in the cold

 

[hturnerfamily]

after owning two Nissan Leafs, 2014 and 2015, for several years, and a LOT of miles - I believe that the base Pro standard range battery, with a driver on board, and no 'load', as Ford added to it's testing, will prove out, in good driving conditions(little wind, no usage of heat or air conditioning, and relatively flat conditions), that the actual 'range' will be closer to 300 miles.
Even as little as a 1,000 lb load, in addition to the average driver weight, is a SUBSTANTIAL load to carry for 230 miles - without that load, the battery will most CERTAINLY gain many more miles without it.
The average F150, or any average truck for that matter, rarely carries anything other than the driver.

 

[Dalton]

I thought I saw somewhere that somebody said the max tow has some sort of cooling feature which could boost mileage -- is there any truth to that? I'm still trying to get my head around regen braking and how to "maximize" the range.

 

[metroshot]

Range anxiety is showing here with first time EV buyers....

For those that are sweating about range, try out a PHEV to sort of "step into EV"....

That's what I did - PHEV Honda and love it!

Now I am ready for full on EV since range anxiety is not an issue...

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