Setting Charge End Time

[mb0220]

I wish @Ford Motor Company would update the charging programming to allow us to set a charge complete time. Then the truck would determine when it needs to start charging based on the charge end time.

For us the live in a cold climate it would be more efficient to have a warm battery when we depart.

For example, I leave M-F at 6:30 am. I would like to complete charging close to 6:30 am so my battery would be warm and more efficient as I live in a colder climate. I know Tesla and GM already have this as an option for many years. Currently, my truck starts to charge as soon as the lower rates start. If I push back the timer for this and the truck needs more time to charge, it continuously try to communicate with my charger draining the 12v battery and turning my charger on and off every few seconds.

In timing the charge to end at (or close to) your departure time, is your goal to limit the time the battery spends at full charge? Or are you just trying to take advantage of the charging warmth to have a warmer battery when you leave?

If it's the former, I'd say don't worry about it - and/or set your charge limit below 100%. No big deal to sit at 80% or 90% for a few hours.

If it's the latter, just use a scheduled departure like everyone else is suggesting. It does more than warm the cab - it also conditions the battery with shore power (not using the battery). However, the real intent of this feature is to maximize your range - avoids using battery energy to condition your battery when you start driving. If you are not needing to maximize range, don't bother.

TLDR - just leave it plugged in and leave your schedule alone. The battery will be fine.

Sponsored

 

[TaxmanHog]

If it's the latter, just use a scheduled departure like everyone else is suggesting. It does more than warm the cab - it also conditions the battery with shore power (not using the battery). However, the real intent of this feature is to maximize your range - avoids using battery energy to condition your battery when you start driving. If you are not needing to maximize range, don't bother.

TLDR - just leave it plugged in and leave your schedule alone. The battery will be fine.

I believe most of us understand these principles, and some might view the efforts of timing as splitting hairs to optimize battery performance (not worrying about minutes/hours at 100%), just optimizing the heat created from charging against the net energy of departure-time induced battery warming.

BTW, the only time the battery consumes its own energy for pack warming is navigation route to DC fast charging stations, otherwise the battery gradually loses heat through out a long drive and further cold soaks if parked where no L2 energy is available.

 

[shutterbug]

I wish @Ford Motor Company would update the charging programming to allow us to set a charge complete time. Then the truck would determine when it needs to start charging based on the charge end time.

For us the live in a cold climate it would be more efficient to have a warm battery when we depart.

For example, I leave M-F at 6:30 am. I would like to complete charging close to 6:30 am so my battery would be warm and more efficient as I live in a colder climate. I know Tesla and GM already have this as an option for many years. Currently, my truck starts to charge as soon as the lower rates start. If I push back the timer for this and the truck needs more time to charge, it continuously try to communicate with my charger draining the 12v battery and turning my charger on and off every few seconds.

There is another reason this might be helpful. For those of us living in hotter than hell climate, we may want to charge when the ambient temperature is slightly cooler, which is usually just before sunrise.

 

[Wattsgas]

For trucks in a cold climate I wonder if something like a RV skirt or insulated or low heat box below the battery would improve maintaining a warmer battery temperature. Some folks heat their stairs and driveways to melt icing.

 

[mb0220]

BTW, the only time the battery consumes its own energy for pack warming is navigation route to DC fast charging stations, otherwise the battery gradually loses heat through out a long drive and further cold soaks if parked where no L2 energy is available.

This I did not know! I figured while driving it used a bit of energy to achieve/maintain proper conditions for driving, and then did a little bit more when navigating to a DCFC to optimize for charging. But you're saying it does nothing to the battery while driving? If that's the case, then what is the "exterior temperature" portion of the energy consumption bar?

 

[WoodduckMN]

What I’m asking is the option like other leading EV manufacturers have. Let me tell my truck when I would prefer charging to complete, ie same as departure time. Then it will use less house power warming the battery to charge and a second time for departure preconditioning. I’ve owned three EVs now, my others allow this.

 

[TaxmanHog]

This I did not know! I figured while driving it used a bit of energy to achieve/maintain proper conditions for driving, and then did a little bit more when navigating to a DCFC to optimize for charging. But you're saying it does nothing to the battery while driving? If that's the case, then what is the "exterior temperature" portion of the energy consumption bar?

My understanding {subject to being wrong} is that it reflects the reduced ability of the pack to release theoretical energy ie. 131KW 100% to 0%, the pack being so cold it won't actually give out the full charge.

 

[husky10101]

Just sold a Tesla Model X and I could go into the app and start the car heating the cabin and warm the battery 10 to 15 min before I leave and it worked great. Also, with the Tesla the battery does not get cold while driving. Tesla is able to capture heat from the electric motors and use antifreeze to keep the batteries war. I am surprised the Ford allows the battery to get cold. 15 min before I leave and it worked great. Also, with the Tesla the battery does not get cold while driving. Tesla is able to capture heat from the electric motors and use antifreeze to keep the batteries war. I am surprised the Ford allows the battery to get cold. Picking up a 2023 Lightning next week.

 

[RickLightning]

This I did not know! I figured while driving it used a bit of energy to achieve/maintain proper conditions for driving, and then did a little bit more when navigating to a DCFC to optimize for charging. But you're saying it does nothing to the battery while driving? If that's the case, then what is the "exterior temperature" portion of the energy consumption bar?

If you heat up the battery through a departure time, or DC fast charging, then yes, it will cool as you drive. First winter with the truck, 3rd with a Mach-E. Mach-E preconditions to 59 degrees, cools to around 40 while driving in 20 degrees. Fast charge warms it to 90s, cools to 40 while driving.

 

[RickLightning]

For those that want all these options, here's why you may never get them. In short, the average person is too uninformed / not smart / doesn't give a rat's butt to use their brain to do any of this stuff. People leave for a long trip charged to 80% "because I always do". Most of the "tips" most people won't follow. Add in 4 charging options like "be at my percentage when I'm ready to leave tomorrow" and "don't start until my off-peak rates begin" and more, just confuses people. KISS - Keep It Simple Stupid is how it's going to be.

Decades ago I taught for the Red Cross, CPR and such. All materials were written for a 13 year / 7th grade brain. Not because that's who took the classes, but because any higher and a portion of the adult population gets confused.

 

[TaxmanHog]

Also, with the Tesla the battery does not get cold while driving. Tesla is able to capture heat from the electric motors and use antifreeze to keep the batteries war. I am surprised the Ford allows the battery to get cold. 15 min before I leave and it worked great. Also, with the Tesla the battery does not get cold while driving. Tesla is able to capture heat from the electric motors and use antifreeze to keep the batteries war. I am surprised the Ford allows the battery to get cold. Picking up a 2023 Lightning next week.

The Lightnings motors send residual heat back to the main glycol loop, but they do not do the active standstill heating using the motor winding like Tesla does, Ford only captures / transfers excess heat out from bearing, gear and windings that are primarily cooled with transaxle oil, then a secondary transfer to glycol, then loops back to battery, cabin etc, so there is a little conservation.

Motor teardown

 

[Maxx]

Conditions can impact the values, but I've seen upwards of 8-9 KWH dedicated battery warming

I don’t have a garage and truck is always outside. Based on everything you know, if I don’t care about efficiency, comfort and range when I leave and just care about battery health, do I still need to keep the truck plugged in on cold nights (20F)?

Does the truck keep the battery at a minimum temp using external electricity when plugged in but let is go as low as ambient temp when unplugged?

My understanding is most of the cold damage to the HVB comes from charging when it is cold (faster the charge and colder the battery bigger the damage) but it is OK when extracting energy from cold battery (just less of it is a viable). Is that correct?

In short, is it safe to remain unplugged.

 

[TaxmanHog]

I don’t have a garage and truck is always outside. Based on everything you know, if I don’t care about efficiency, comfort and range when I leave and just care about battery health, do I still need to keep the truck plugged in on cold nights (20F)?

Does the truck keep the battery at a minimum temp using external electricity when plugged in but let is go as low as ambient temp when unplugged?

My understanding is most of the cold damage to the HVB comes from charging when it is cold (faster the charge and colder the battery bigger the damage) but it is OK when extracting energy from cold battery (just less of it is a viable). Is that correct?

In short, is it safe to remain unplugged.

If plugged in to level-2, the system will moderate the battery temps to a level that's safe for charging conditions so as not to compromise the battery cells, this will happen autonomously. Discussion has been had on other threads about level-1 120v power as being barely sufficient for battery health maintenance and charging.

A side benefit to remaining plugged in when possible, is that if there is a need to maximize range/efficiency, preconditioning the battery further with a set departure time will improve power output and squeeze out the best range on the initial leg or half trip.

If not plugged in, the battery will cold soak, it' won't cannibalize battery energy while the truck is off, it's my understanding that these cell will still perform though not as well in frigid conditions, as we drive some secondary heat coming out of the drivetrain (motors, DC/AC power inverters) can be scavenged to moderate the pack temp's, but not by an appreciable amount.

Cold soaked battery, that's driven and mildly warmed from driving can be prepared for charging by using the native Ford navigation with a set destination that is a DCFC station, ~20 miles outside the destination the truck will consume pack energy via the PTC to route hot glycol to the battery pack helping raise the cell temps to a safe charging range, in turn minimizing the wait time for charging session.

IF, you don't precondition during the drive to the DCFC station, no worries, the truck will take available energy from either the battery or DCFC terminal to first warm up the battery, the truck should remind you to minimize cabin heating for the first 15+ minutes to allow the most heat to get into the battery pack, when it's safe to charge the available charging energy will divert to the charging the pack, at which time you can resume warming the cabin.

All that said, for most of my short haul trips, it's a waste to use departure timer to warm the battery, and the modest amount of energy 1-4 KWH for cabin warming can be spent from the battery, at the end of the day or after a few days, I'll just replenish all that spent juice with incremental or bulk charging (after multiple days unplugged).

Yes, it's safe, the truck will determine when it's safe for full power output and or charging.

 

[TaxmanHog]

I observed something odd this morning, we had a mild raining night Friday into Saturday, wake up temps in the low 50's, I used the remote starter for a 15 minute cabin warming session, using 4.2 KWH, this was a bit more than I've used in the past typically 2-3 KWH.

 

[Maxx]

IF, you don't precondition during the drive to the DCFC station, no worries, the truck will take available energy from either the battery or DCFC terminal to first warm up the battery,

Very helpful. Thank you. Is this the case for L2 charging a cold soaked battery as well? Or it happens only for DCFC because there is more power involved?

Sponsored