Transmission Fluid Pump

[Istiri]

Hey everyone,
I’m in the process of looking at risk / reward for a RAV Lightning. I understand the risk with lemons, so not looking for an education there.

The stated reason for the RAV on the warranty report was a “transmission pump inop” and a 90+ day part delay for a “front drive trans fluid pump” replacement. I have probably scoured all forums on the web to find another owner with a similar issue and have failed. Is anyone mechanically inclined who might be able to reason about this mechanics note and the implication on it for the Lightning? Greatly appreciate anyone’s thoughts.

Sponsored

 

[MaintGrl]

Um, I don't mean to play dumb . . but what is RAV?

 

[bakerm82]

Um, I don't mean to play dumb . . but what is RAV?

Ford Reacquired Vehicles. I just finished working with them for a similar instance where there was a part on backorder with no estimate for delivery.

 

[Ricks Lightning]

Not to be the grammar police, but wouldn't that be FRV

Rick

 

[bakerm82]

Not to be the grammar police, but wouldn't that be FRV

Rick

Absolutely, and I even checked before my original post. Here's the signature from their e-mail:

"Ford Lincoln Reacquired Vehicle Headquarters"

 

[Istiri]

Ford Reacquired Vehicles. I just finished working with them for a similar instance where there was a part on backorder with no estimate for delivery.

Let me ask you this: Given the issue you had being a parts delay and knowing what you know about the issue: Would you consider your vehicle being sold as a RAV vs one that’s got a mile long lemon list?

I’ve seen ones with crazy warranty reports I wouldn’t touch (dead stick cars 3x over even with repairs) and a funny one (guy kept claiming BC didn’t work and dealer drove it 100 highway miles to confirm it did, FCSP wouldn’t charge truck but guy kept saying his circuit breaker would trip each time without thought of it being a charger or in correct install )

 

[bakerm82]

Let me ask you this: Given the issue you had being a parts delay and knowing what you know about the issue: Would you consider your vehicle being sold as a RAV vs one that’s got a mile long lemon list?

I’ve seen ones with crazy warranty reports I wouldn’t touch (dead stick cars 3x over even with repairs) and a funny one (guy kept claiming BC didn’t work and dealer drove it 100 highway miles to confirm it did, FCSP wouldn’t charge truck but guy kept saying his circuit breaker would trip each time without thought of it being a charger or in correct install )

A few thoughts/ comments:

• My backordered part was just a wiring harness, no other problems with the vehicle. If that were the only thing, someone would be getting a steal getting my old '22 Lariat (I'm in a 24' Lariat now).
• Because the issue was with the wiring harness, it couldn't be charged, so it sat on the dealer lot for months just draining. When an EV sits at 0% too long the HV battery cells can be damaged, which in turn lowers the overall battery capacity.
• If the vehicle you're looking at has been properly maintained while it's been part of the RAV program hopefully there are not any new issues that have been caused by it sitting (tires, brakes, fluids, etc.). Most of these can be tested for prior to purchase.
• When Ford finally purchased the vehicle back from me and I went to get the few remaining belongings I had (using the physical key because everything was DED dead) so much had been ripped apart for diagnosis. The 15.5" screen was in the back seat, the entire frunk was ripped apart, a lot of the dash was dis-assembled, etc. This is just a personal feeling, but I would never feel that the truck was the same again.

- M

 

[Istiri]

A few thoughts/ comments:

• My backordered part was just a wiring harness, no other problems with the vehicle. If that were the only thing, someone would be getting a steal getting my old '22 Lariat (I'm in a 24' Lariat now).
• Because the issue was with the wiring harness, it couldn't be charged, so it sat on the dealer lot for months just draining. When an EV sits at 0% too long the HV battery cells can be damaged, which in turn lowers the overall battery capacity.
• If the vehicle you're looking at has been properly maintained while it's been part of the RAV program hopefully there are not any new issues that have been caused by it sitting (tires, brakes, fluids, etc.). Most of these can be tested for prior to purchase.
• When Ford finally purchased the vehicle back from me and I went to get the few remaining belongings I had (using the physical key because everything was DED dead) so much had been ripped apart for diagnosis. The 15.5" screen was in the back seat, the entire frunk was ripped apart, a lot of the dash was dis-assembled, etc. This is just a personal feeling, but I would never feel that the truck was the same again.

- M

Appreciate the perspective, that’s good to know. As of now I’m swaying toward not buying a RAV but being someone who generally researches and purchases other types of refurbished tech, just doing my homework

 

[TaxmanHog]

Assuming it was straight up the pump, easily serviceable part on the motor unit, and the problem was supply of said replacement part which leads to former owner to return the truck. I'd be inclined to take the risk. Barring total tear aparts like @bakerm82 described.

One caveat, pay close attention to the sounds the drive motors make, hopefully the pump failure didn't lead to bearing failure.

 

[Istiri]

Will do, thank you.

 

[Henry Ford]

What's the deal and what's the warranty? A branded title will hurt resale so you want to make sure you take that into account. If you burn through vehicles every couple years it would have to be a screaming good deal. If you keep them until they become one with the earth a smaller discount is still a good deal.

 

[PrimeRisk]

A few thoughts/ comments:

• My backordered part was just a wiring harness, no other problems with the vehicle. If that were the only thing, someone would be getting a steal getting my old '22 Lariat (I'm in a 24' Lariat now).
• Because the issue was with the wiring harness, it couldn't be charged, so it sat on the dealer lot for months just draining. When an EV sits at 0% too long the HV battery cells can be damaged, which in turn lowers the overall battery capacity.
• If the vehicle you're looking at has been properly maintained while it's been part of the RAV program hopefully there are not any new issues that have been caused by it sitting (tires, brakes, fluids, etc.). Most of these can be tested for prior to purchase.
• When Ford finally purchased the vehicle back from me and I went to get the few remaining belongings I had (using the physical key because everything was DED dead) so much had been ripped apart for diagnosis. The 15.5" screen was in the back seat, the entire frunk was ripped apart, a lot of the dash was dis-assembled, etc. This is just a personal feeling, but I would never feel that the truck was the same again.

- M

Out of curiosity, what did Ford do for you when the vehicle was sitting there for all of this time? Did they provide a loaner vehicle or rental? Situations like this can really suck and I'm just wondering what Ford did to make it right.

As for the HV battery, I wouldn't be too worried about it draining flat unless it was very low when you dropped it off. I don't have much experience with storing a Lightning, but I did inadvertently store a Tesla Model Y performance for 8 weeks. We had driven it to Myrtle Beach and intended to drive it back, but life has a way of changing plans. We had an emergency arise and had to fly back to Colorado immediately. I didn't have a place I could park it and leave it on an EVSE, so I left it in the condo parking lot with the intent of flying back to get it the next week.

I remembered to disable sentry mode as I'm aware that will drain of a few percent of the HV battery each day. As things unfolded, it was 8 weeks until I was able to fly back to Myrtle Beach. I was initially very concerned that I would have a completely flat 12v battery to contend with, but I'd check on the app every few days to see the condition of the car and all was well. Over the 8 weeks I lost 25% of the HV battery charge and when I researched, the car will occasionally wake up to check things and communicate with home, including topping off the 12v battery if needed. The car will apparently go into a very deep sleep and stop waking once the battery reaches 20% SOC.

It seems that Tesla has thought through a lot of scenarios to protect the HV battery and appear that they can pretty easily be stored for 3+ months with no worries. I'd be surprised if Ford hasn't similarly thought this through.

 

[Istiri]

What's the deal and what's the warranty? A branded title will hurt resale so you want to make sure you take that into account. If you burn through vehicles every couple years it would have to be a screaming good deal. If you keep them until they become one with the earth a smaller discount is still a good deal.

It’s listed 46k, similar MY23s with under 15k miles average 54-55 list price in my area. I’d prefer a 20% haircut on a buyback which would be more 43-44k range.

As far as I can tell based on carfax and warranty reports: Listed as buyback but not “lemon” due to the delay. There is no “!” Warning on the title brand whereas I have seen that for other lemons but I’m not a lawyer so maybe there is no difference.

It’s 1yr and 9k into its b2b warranty so I’d have 2/25 and 4/40 on the b2b and powertrain. Regardless of that, would be getting extended warranty from granger just a question of if the dealer would cover that for me.

 

[bakerm82]

Out of curiosity, what did Ford do for you when the vehicle was sitting there for all of this time? Did they provide a loaner vehicle or rental? Situations like this can really suck and I'm just wondering what Ford did to make it right.

As for the HV battery, I wouldn't be too worried about it draining flat unless it was very low when you dropped it off. I don't have much experience with storing a Lightning, but I did inadvertently store a Tesla Model Y performance for 8 weeks. We had driven it to Myrtle Beach and intended to drive it back, but life has a way of changing plans. We had an emergency arise and had to fly back to Colorado immediately. I didn't have a place I could park it and leave it on an EVSE, so I left it in the condo parking lot with the intent of flying back to get it the next week.

I remembered to disable sentry mode as I'm aware that will drain of a few percent of the HV battery each day. As things unfolded, it was 8 weeks until I was able to fly back to Myrtle Beach. I was initially very concerned that I would have a completely flat 12v battery to contend with, but I'd check on the app every few days to see the condition of the car and all was well. Over the 8 weeks I lost 25% of the HV battery charge and when I researched, the car will occasionally wake up to check things and communicate with home, including topping off the 12v battery if needed. The car will apparently go into a very deep sleep and stop waking once the battery reaches 20% SOC.

It seems that Tesla has thought through a lot of scenarios to protect the HV battery and appear that they can pretty easily be stored for 3+ months with no worries. I'd be surprised if Ford hasn't similarly thought this through.

When I had originally dropped the car off there were no loaners at the dealership. The dealership was able to set up with a rental at their rate. Long story short, I paid out of pocket for the rental for almost four months. In the end, insurance covered 30 days, the dealership covered a month since I was getting my new truck from them, and Ford ultimately decided to assist with the rental cost. Ford definitely stepped up and did me right, especially considering the nature of the issue with the wiring harness. It was a hassle, but they treated this in a fashion in which they didn't legally need to in NY.

Regarding the battery, it was probably 80%-90% charged when I dropped it off. However, the weather is a lot colder here than Myrtle Beach and the truck was left outside while the dealership waited for the part so they could work on other vehicles. It was definitely at 0% for 1-2 months. It is only getting colder and Ford stated the earliest the part would be available is January/ February. So that's another two months at 0%. I wasn't worried about the 12V battery, that's easy to replace. The HV battery is an entirely different case. Definitely worth noting when someone is considering purchasing a RAV vehicle. My old one would show up as a buyback, not a lemon, as well.

- M

 

[Henry Ford]

As far as I can tell based on carfax and warranty reports: Listed as buyback but not “lemon” due to the delay. There is no “!” Warning on the title brand whereas I have seen that for other lemons but I’m not a lawyer so maybe there is no difference.

It’s 1yr and 9k into its b2b warranty so I’d have 2/25 and 4/40 on the b2b and powertrain. Regardless of that, would be getting extended warranty from granger just a question of if the dealer would cover that for me.

I was under the impression a buyback was a branded title in all cases. According to Google it's state specific and will always be flagged by Carfax. If it were me I'd assume it will affect resale value.

Sponsored