Unexpectedly low range

[luebri]

It's so crazy that the truck doesn't pre-condition the battery when you aren't plugged in. I wish I could ask the Ford engineers what went into that decision. All I want is for my damn battery to start warming up when I start my truck. Is that too much to ask?

Why would you use your battery Kwh, to get a more efficient drive but with less kwh when starting? Net effect would be ~the same.

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[LightningShow]

The first leg 83.4 miles was to Nashua (95n, 495n, 3n), I thought I was averaging 75 indicated, but there was congestion in section which slowed me down lessening speed impact, looking at the time lapse & miles overall speed was 59.93 MPH , I did have the truck in the garage plugged in & warming up.

Skipped photos of leg from Nashua to Salem bike event via back roads~18 miles @ 35-45 MPH
Skipped photos of leg from Salem back to Pheasant lane mall EA ~18 miles @ 35-45 MPH
DCFC 22 KWH of juice in 16 minutes

Last leg 76.5 miles was from the Nashua EA to home (3s, 495s, 95s), cold soaked for a couple of hours, my driving was more spirited in some sections, likely contributed to my reduced MPK, overall speed was 65.11 MPH

Speed kills efficiency!

OK, makes sense. 65mph *average* is a pretty strong clip. That's the kind of average you only see when you're doing a pure highway drive with almost no surface roads. My daily commute is 20 miles, 15 highway. Even if I go straight out at 80 for the 15 miles of hwy my average is still around 45-50mph. Since the increase in drag is non-linear, average doesn't always tell the whole story either.

 

[jetfixr1]

Be plugged into an AC/BASIC EVSE level 2 is the best, set a departure time in the cold season, the truck will calculate how early to start the battery warming process such that it's ready to drive by your leave time, in my experience set the time for about 30 minutes prior to actual leave time to overcome a glitch with the steering wheel warmer.

The Lightning will warm the battery prior to pushing HV-DC into the pack, it's helpful during cold driving to select a DCFC station in Ford Navigation if a mid trip charging session is needed, the truck will start the battery warming process approx 20 miles prior to arriving at the charging destination.

Given the ZIP code in your profile, the seasonal conditions probably won't require much battery warming

What is the glitch your talking about?

 

[luebri]

What is the glitch your talking about?

The Precondition/Comfort glitch he is referring to is... The heated steering wheel for many will not warm during Precondition and worse yet, you lose the control to turn it on during your drive.

A few of us figured out a workaround of timing the departure to be 20 or 30 minutes earlier than actual departure will cause the Cabin to warm up, but then "timeout" and stop the cabin comfort conditioning, which then puts the truck back in a normal state which will allow for normal heated steering wheel control.

 

[jetfixr1]

The Precondition/Comfort glitch he is referring to is... The heated steering wheel for many will not warm during Precondition and worse yet, you lose the control to turn it on during your drive.

A few of us figured out a workaround of timing the departure to be 20 or 30 minutes earlier than actual departure will cause the Cabin to warm up, but then "timeout" and stop the cabin comfort conditioning, which then puts the truck back in a normal state which will allow for normal heated steering wheel control.

Thank you. I wasnt aware, my heated steering functions normally during precondition. Speaking of timing out, how long does it take? I made it to my truck about 2 hours past my departure time the other night and it was cold again.

 

[luebri]

Thank you. I wasnt aware, my heated steering functions normally during precondition. Speaking of timing out, how long does it take? I made it to my truck about 2 hours past my departure time the other night and it was cold again.

20 or 30 minutes I think. Not 100% sure, but definitely not longer than 30 minutes

 

[Jim Lewis]

The battery has the same amount of energy regardless of temperature. 80% is 80%, whether it's at 0º or 80º.

That's not exactly it. One may have pumped the same amount of electrons into the battery to achieve 80% charge but the main factor at play, as battery temperature drops, the delivered voltage, hence power per amount of electrons drained, drops drastically.

Everything below is a quote from How to read battery discharge curves - Battery Power Tips

The graph below shows the impact on Li-ion performance at varying temperatures. At very low temperatures, the performance can be greatly reduced. But battery discharge curves are only one part of the story regarding battery performance. For example, the further the operating temperature of a Li-ion battery is from room temperature (both higher temperatures and lower temperatures), the more the cycle life degrades. A complete analysis of all the factors impacting the suitability of various battery chemistries for specific applications is beyond the scope of this look into battery discharge curves. An example of other ways to analyze the performance of different batteries is the Ragone plot.

Battery voltage and capacity are temperature dependent.

(Image: Richtek)https://www.richtek.com/Design Support/Technical Document/AN024

 

[TomB985]

That's not exactly it. One may have pumped the same amount of electrons into the battery to achieve 80% charge but the main factor at play, as battery temperature drops, the delivered voltage, hence power per amount of electrons drained, drops drastically.

Everything below is a quote from How to read battery discharge curves - Battery Power Tips

The graph below shows the impact on Li-ion performance at varying temperatures. At very low temperatures, the performance can be greatly reduced. But battery discharge curves are only one part of the story regarding battery performance. For example, the further the operating temperature of a Li-ion battery is from room temperature (both higher temperatures and lower temperatures), the more the cycle life degrades. A complete analysis of all the factors impacting the suitability of various battery chemistries for specific applications is beyond the scope of this look into battery discharge curves. An example of other ways to analyze the performance of different batteries is the Ragone plot.

Battery voltage and capacity are temperature dependent.

(Image: Richtek)https://www.richtek.com/Design Support/Technical Document/AN024

No, that’s not correct. Electrons don’t move along a wire; electric current is the movement of electrons within the conducting atoms of a wire.

Electrons never leave the battery and you can’t put more in.

https://www.energy.gov/science/doe-explainsbatteries#:~:text=When the electrons move from the cathode to,electricity in the circuit and discharge the battery.

You’re confusing maximum charge/discharge rates with energy storage. A cold battery has the same amount of energy, but it can’t be released as quickly or efficiently. Hence the lower maximum power and regen.

 

[LightningShow]

The Precondition/Comfort glitch he is referring to is... The heated steering wheel for many will not warm during Precondition and worse yet, you lose the control to turn it on during your drive.

A few of us figured out a workaround of timing the departure to be 20 or 30 minutes earlier than actual departure will cause the Cabin to warm up, but then "timeout" and stop the cabin comfort conditioning, which then puts the truck back in a normal state which will allow for normal heated steering wheel control.

It’s crazy that they haven’t fixed this. Has there been any feedback from Ford on this issue?

 

[Jim Lewis]

No, that’s not correct. Electrons don’t move along a wire; electric current is the movement of electrons within the conducting atoms of a wire.

Your highlight in your link leaves out the next sentence:

During charging or discharging, the oppositely charged ions move inside the battery through the electrolyte to balance the charge of the electrons moving through the external circuit and produce a sustainable, rechargeable system.

Electrons do move. Granted, it's not that an electron from the grid-generating station races all the way to your charger at the speed of light. Rather, the EMF at the power station pushes electrons along the wire from atom to atom in a metal conductor, and this sequential displacement pushes one in the wire in your charger plug into your battery. And spent electrons are "slowly" pushed back to the power station similarly.***

Where do you get your statement that "Electrons never leave the battery" from?!

To charge the battery, you have to put electrons into the battery to convert Li+ ion to Li metal. In discharging the battery, you convert Li metal to Li+ ion, generating a flow of electrons OUT of the battery through a wire from the cathode.

The state of charge is the relative % of Li atoms that are metal out of all the chargeable Li atoms in the battery. So, you can be close to 100% Li metal but have low power due to lower voltage at lower temperatures in oxidizing the Li metal.

Go along any horizontal voltage line in the graph in my previous post, say the 3.4 volt line and you will effectively see the reduced power of the battery by the ability to output electrons down to a useable voltage. At 0 degrees C, there are only about 1700 mAh of useable electrons down to 3.4 volts, whereas at 23 deg C, there are about 1930 mAh or more of useable electrons down to 3.4 volts. The graph is probably for a phone battery; the higher voltage in an EV battery is just achieved by stacking cells in series that follow the same chemistry and temperature dependencies.

***Edit_Update: Should correct my own comments to note that in an AC circuit, electrons just oscillate. But in a DC circuit, which is what's involved in charging and discharging a battery, electrons do move into and out of the battery. The Lightning has to convert AC to DC to charge its battery and the DC current from discharging the battery has to be converted to AC to run the truck's AC electric motors.

 

[TomB985]

I'm wrong. It's tough to find anything more than generic information, but I dug up a couple of interesting research studies that addressed this. This one from 2016 found only 82% of the test cell's capacity was available at -15º C. It doesn't identify the cell used. This one from 2018 cited to the previous one, and mentioned that low-temperature electrolytes can significantly increase performance.

Battery tech has improved by leaps and bounds over the last decade, and we don't know the exact characteristics of the batteries slung under the Lightning. But whatever they are, they don't have quite as much energy when cold. I don't think the effect is as significant as people think, and the primary cause of reduced range is increased consumption because of heating loads and other factors. I had that basic principle wrong, so wanted to correct that.

 

[Pioneer74]

It’s crazy that they haven’t fixed this. Has there been any feedback from Ford on this issue?

It's only been a known issue for about 14 months. Maybe they just need a little more time.

 

[rdr854]

To get 2.7, you must do a lot of low speed driving.

I would say mixed driving. I’ve taken the truck from Woodbridge to Washington DC several times up 95/395 as well as to Roanoke VA and Williamsburg VA. Additionally, it has been to Richmond VA several times and on numerous cross county drives at highway speeds. I generally don’t exceed 60 mph on the highway and in urban areas stick to the 55 mph speed limit. I also used heated seats and steering wheel in Winter and set the temp for the AC to 79 if I am even going to use it in Summer.

 

[LightningShow]

Why would you use your battery Kwh, to get a more efficient drive but with less kwh when starting? Net effect would be ~the same.

If it doesn't improve your net efficiency then what's the point of pre-conditioning the battery at all? The energy is coming from the same place and costing you the same amount (in most cases).

 

[RickLightning]

If it doesn't improve your net efficiency then what's the point of pre-conditioning the battery at all? The energy is coming from the same place and costing you the same amount (in most cases).

Perhaps you're missing the point. Preconditioning, with a departure time, with the truck plugged in, makes sense if you have a decent drive coming up. If you're only driving 5 miles, it would cost more than you gain.

When using 110v, the house cannot supply enough power to precondition, and the remote start also uses more power than the house can provide, so your battery goes down in charge level.

When remote starting unplugged, your battery also goes down.

Hope that helps.

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