What percentage should I charge my battery to daily using the Ford Charge Station Pro?

[Mike G]

Well I found out something on the roadtrip I took last week. And I apparently somehow had missed this factoid that a Ford Lightning customer support guy clued me in about (cause I didn't read the manual yet).

I had to make a hasty trip to attend a funeral and hadn't investigated all the "EV trip planning" stuff I was supposed to do beforehand, just threw my stuff in and winged it.

I used a 350Kwh EA charger at my first charge location cause I thought it would speed things up. When I left the truck it was rockin' along at 158Kwh. I returned to the truck about 15 mins after starting the charge to find the rate was like 56Kwh and it never got better. That was a long wait to 80%.

Later during a discussion with the Ford Lightning guy the next day I described what had happened and he said I should stick to chargers that were 150Kwh since that's what both the Lightning and Mach-E are designed to charge at. I felt pretty stoopid. After that I had zero problems and all recharges took around 20 mins (40%-80%).

So while setting up to do my OBCC module update in FDRS yesterday I checked for DTCs and sure enough there was one that was set earlier (but not currently) for the OBCC. I'm sure it was that event with the 350Kwh charger that caused it. I cleared and retested...all green.

So I'll be staying away from the 350's from now on.

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[adoublee]

Well I found out something on the roadtrip I took last week. And I apparently somehow had missed this factoid that a Ford Lightning customer support guy clued me in about (cause I didn't read the manual yet).

I had to make a hasty trip to attend a funeral and hadn't investigated all the "EV trip planning" stuff I was supposed to do beforehand, just threw my stuff in and winged it.

I used a 350Kwh EA charger at my first charge location cause I thought it would speed things up. When I left the truck it was rockin' along at 158Kwh. I returned to the truck about 15 mins after starting the charge to find the rate was like 56Kwh and it never got better. That was a long wait to 80%.

Later during a discussion with the Ford Lightning guy the next day I described what had happened and he said I should stick to chargers that were 150Kwh since that's what both the Lightning and Mach-E are designed to charge at. I felt pretty stoopid. After that I had zero problems and all recharges took around 20 mins (40%-80%).

So while setting up to do my OBCC module update in FDRS yesterday I checked for DTCs and sure enough there was one that was set earlier (but not currently) for the OBCC. I'm sure it was that event with the 350Kwh charger that caused it. I cleared and retested...all green.

So I'll be staying away from the 350's from now on.

A charger with a 200A rated dispenser cable is only going to push 72kW into vehicle if battery pack is at 360V (around 25% SOC voltage). The math there is 200 x 360. This is true no matter what the kW rating of the charger is.

A charger with a 300A rated dispenser cable is only going to push 108kW into vehicle if battery pack is at 360V (around 25% SOC voltage). The math there is 300 x 360. This is true no matter what the kW rating of the charger is.

A charger with a 350A rated dispenser cable is only going to push 126kW into vehicle if battery pack is at 360V (around 25% SOC voltage). The math there is 350 x 360. This is true no matter what the kW rating of the charger is. At this cable the power is about 25% less than the truck is capable of taking (~465A).

A complicating factor is that sometimes dispenser cables have a 10 minute burst rating that is higher than the continuous rating but you get the point.

Typically 350kW DCFC stations are equipped with 500A dispenser cables to be able to dispense that much power - this results in unrestricted supply to Lightning. Typically chargers with a 100kW to 150kW power rating will only have 200A to 350A dispenser cables, pinching off max power the charger is otherwise rated for. The cable limits are not described on Plugshare when searching for chargers.

Your 56kW on a 350kW charger that sounds to have been the rate much before 80% SOC was some other issue, presumably an issue with the charger. The Ford Lightning guy you talked to actually sounds like a partially-informed noob versus you being "stoopid".

 

[O’Majestic1’slightnigF150]

Out of spec Kyle has a very good video on the Lightning charge curve based on their first cut at real world research. Out of spec is looking in the other end of the telescope than this thread but explains the communications between truck and charger and what the trucks surveillance / monitoring is probably doing as it charges and messages the charger. 30 minutes long but explains the charge curve as they see it based on current hardware and software. I’ll spoil his recommendation: 20-80 but that is strictly for optimum travel. Ie, minimum time spent charging to get from point a to point b on a long road trip, not what’s best for your battery life expectancy.

 

[RickLightning]

A charger with a 200A rated dispenser cable is only going to push 72kW into vehicle if battery pack is at 360V (around 25% SOC voltage). The math there is 200 x 360. This is true no matter what the kW rating of the charger is.

A charger with a 300A rated dispenser cable is only going to push 108kW into vehicle if battery pack is at 360V (around 25% SOC voltage). The math there is 300 x 360. This is true no matter what the kW rating of the charger is.

A charger with a 350A rated dispenser cable is only going to push 126kW into vehicle if battery pack is at 360V (around 25% SOC voltage). The math there is 350 x 360. This is true no matter what the kW rating of the charger is. At this cable the power is about 25% less than the truck is capable of taking (~465A).

A complicating factor is that sometimes dispenser cables have a 10 minute burst rating that is higher than the continuous rating but you get the point.

Typically 350kW DCFC stations are equipped with 500A dispenser cables to be able to dispense that much power - this results in unrestricted supply to Lightning. Typically chargers with a 100kW to 150kW power rating will only have 200A to 350A dispenser cables, pinching off max power the charger is otherwise rated for. The cable limits are not described on Plugshare when searching for chargers.

Your 56kW on a 350kW charger that sounds to have been the rate much before 80% SOC was some other issue, presumably an issue with the charger. The Ford Lightning guy you talked to actually sounds like a partially-informed noob versus you being "stoopid".

If the Lightning guy was a Ford employee, he should be fired.

As stated, if you were below 80% and at 56kW, then something was likely causing that - i.e. a bad charger.

In short, you should NOT avoid 350kW chargers.

 

[GDN]

If the Lightning guy was a Ford employee, he should be fired.

As stated, if you were below 80% and at 56kW, then something was likely causing that - i.e. a bad charger.

In short, you should NOT avoid 350kW chargers.

Agree 100% - or once again Ford has some bad code in their BMS. Every good EV will know what is available to it, but it will regulate and tell the charger what to send.

However - that said something was definitely still wrong with that charging session. I would have tried a different charger. Ford needs to get the app updated pronto too so that you can see and follow a charge session remotely from the app. You shouldn't have to stay at the truck and baby sit it, seeing that remotely should be very easy.

 

[Griddlez]

I wish I could find the study on the MME forums on this topic from like 1yr+ ago. Basically (don't take my word for it.. but) if you charge your battery to 100% for 6-8 years you'll see an estimated 10-13% degradation.

 

[RickLightning]

The challenge with battery studies is that the Mach-E (and likely the Lightning) batteries keep an amount of the battery unavailable to the consumer, both on the low and high ends.

The Mach-E battery is known to be 98kW, yet the 2021 only had 88kW available, and the 2022 only 91kW.

91/98 = 92.9%, so charging to 90% is equivalent to .9 x- 92.9 = 83.6%.

Battery degradation in these vehicles is brought up way more than it matters to anyone.

 

[scottf200]

I guess I was just thinking about minimizing overall charging cycles. The difference between 15 and 30% minimum is one days worth of commute, which defers the need to charge by 1 day between charges. Although TBH have not yet dug into the wealth of knowledge here re: EV batteries and best practices for longevity

The below is not the same battery as what Ford is using BUT it does explain more about to what "charging cycles" mean because it is a misunderstood topic. So some examples help.

>>>>>>>>>
From the following article on batteries "similar" to what Tesla is using.

Divide those number of cycles by 365 or 300 or whatever number of days per year you want. Pretty long.

"500 cycles? But that’s (relatively) low! Yes. But what is not shown on the spec sheet is that when you partially charge and discharge, degradation of the battery capacity is reduced. Thus, you can do over
40000 charge/discharge cycles when going from 30% to 70% only. Or over
35000 charge/discharge cycles from 20% to 80%;
28000 cycles from 10% to 90%;
15000 cycles from 8% to 92%,
07500 cylces from 6% to 94%, and the capacity reduction goes faster and faster, finally reaching
00500 cycles when recharging from 0% to 100%."

http://blog.evandmore.com/lets-talk-about-the-panasonic-ncr18650b/
<<<<<<<<<

 

[metroshot]

The challenge with battery studies is that the Mach-E (and likely the Lightning) batteries keep an amount of the battery unavailable to the consumer, both on the low and high ends.

The Mach-E battery is known to be 98kW, yet the 2021 only had 88kW available, and the 2022 only 91kW.

91/98 = 92.9%, so charging to 90% is equivalent to .9 x- 92.9 = 83.6%.

Battery degradation in these vehicles is brought up way more than it matters to anyone.

Yes, this is the SOC buffers that prevents overcharging and depletion are there to protect the battery pack.

I always charge my EV to 100% using L2 every day and based on the wattage used, it's getting only 85% of the maximum capacity. It will never go to 100% actual cell charge due to the SOC buffers.

Currently my battery is still almost 100% range after 4 years and 45,000 miles later.

My Lightning will be charged to 100% every time on L2 at home knowing that it only gets 85-90% of max charge.

If I ever charge at a DCFC I will limit to less than 90% as Ford recommends.

 

[scottf200]

Some say there are buffers in the packs below 0 and above 100 to protect, but I don't know if we have that proof yet. Even with a buffer, 20 to 80 is the sweet spot commonly known. ...

The challenge with battery studies is that the Mach-E (and likely the Lightning) batteries keep an amount of the battery unavailable to the consumer, both on the low and high ends.
The Mach-E battery is known to be 98kW, yet the 2021 only had 88kW available, and the 2022 only 91kW.
91/98 = 92.9%, so charging to 90% is equivalent to .9 x- 92.9 = 83.6%. ...

Sometimes it is helpful for people to see tabular data. This example is what GM did for the very well-cycled small batteries in the Gen 1 Volt.

Column 1 : User interface of 10 bars (10% each)
Column 2 : User Interface perception range of 0% to 100%
Column 3 : Daily range of battery if drained daily ~22% to ~87%

Chevrolet Volt Gen 1
Battery Gauge RealGauge% UI Battery %
10 bars _ 91%-100% _ 81.0%-86.5%
09 bars _ 81%-90% _ 74.4%-81.0%
08 bars _ 71%-80% _ 68.0%-74.4%
07 bars _ 61%-70% _ 61.5%-68.0%
06 bars _ 51%-60% _ 55.3%-61.5%
05 bars _ 41%-50% _ 48.7%-55.2%
04 bars _ 31%-40% _ 42.1%-48.7%
03 bars _ 21%-30% _ 35.6%-42.1%
02 bars _ 11%-20% _ 29.3%-35.5%
01 bars _ 01%-10% _ 22.7%-29.3%
00 bars _ 00%-01% _ 20.0%-22.7%
** Note extra 0's or s's were added for spacing/lining things up for readability.

 

[Amps]

If I ever charge at a DCFC I will limit to less than 90% as Ford recommends.

The quote from the manual doesn’t differentiate:

What charge level is recommended for daily driving?
Ford recommends that you charge to 90% for everyday driving and charge to 100% when you need the full range for a trip. Charging to 90% helps prolong the life of your battery.

 

[F150ROD]

I’ll be the test dummy charging 90% daily for my 150 miles round trip to work ….. I’ll let you know in 10 years

 

[metroshot]

The quote from the manual doesn’t differentiate:

What charge level is recommended for daily driving?
Ford recommends that you charge to 90% for everyday driving and charge to 100% when you need the full range for a trip. Charging to 90% helps prolong the life of your battery.

Yes I know - my logic is that L2 charging is slow enough that 100% (equals 80-90% actual) is fine as I have personally seen in 4 years of no degradation at 100%.

For DCFC, I know that batteries heat up due to high voltage fast charge so 90% is reasonable for me.

 

[RainorshinePNW]

I’ll be the test dummy charging 90% daily for my 150 miles round trip to work ….. I’ll let you know in 10 years

150 miles daily commute?! Wow. Glad you'll be making those trips in a Lightning, so smooth

 

[Firestop]

150 miles daily commute?! Wow. Glad you'll be making those trips in a Lightning, so smooth

I used to do 170 4x a week…it sucked!‍

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