Success: Charging 2 EVs off one 14-50 outlet

[FordLightningMan]

I skipped over all the scaredy cat hogwash about not being able to chare and instead started kicking myself for installing a second Tesla charger for $1,800 at my house. Since I'm just load sharing anyway with daisy chained chargers, I could've used this approach instead!

3 months too late with the post OP!

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[FlasherZ]

Flasher is alleging is that Ford has sold us a product that is likely to cause fires as demonstrated in its marketing

Jesus Christ, melodramatic much?

I said, simply, that NEC limits charging load on 30A rated receptacles to 24A and it's not smart to charge at any higher rates. I also said that the CMP specified straight-blade receptacles for EV charging because twist-lock receptacles and plugs aren't designed for continuous EV charging and that I've seen them melt from continuous loads. I also said that many 30A receptacles have melted from 30A EV charging load. ALL that is 100 pct true, whether it hurts your ego or not.

Using an adapter to plug a 50A load into a 30A receptacle with a 30A breaker violates code from the start. That's on you.

Show me specifically where Ford says you can charge an EV with a full 30A continuous load off Pro Power Onboard.

You can't.

In fact, if you use a 40A EVSE on that converter cord you will cause even more of an issue. And if you connect an 80A EVSE to it, itll try to draw even more - let's hope the breaker works. And Ford doesn't say that you can't do that, so I guess according to you Ford is advocating 80A EVSE's.

But, alas, no that isn't the case. Ford never said 30A continuous is within spec. They never told anyone to do it, and anyone who does it is violating the NEC.

My best to you, but I won't engage you anymore on your rants. There's plenty out there to back up my experience here. Good luck out there.

 

[FlasherZ]

Here is the typical damage from a continuous load over time on a standard twist-lock (this one from 15A continuous on a 20A plug and receptacle)... the prongs get weak from insertion and removal, especially because the socket will work without twisting the cord to lock it (nothing enforces the locking to keep it tight). Over time they spread and the higher resistance and lack of intermittent cycling generates significant heat, eventually melting the receptacle and insulation.

THIS is why you limit charging to 24A on a 30A receptacle.

 

[PungoteagueDave]

Jesus Christ, melodramatic much?

I said, simply, that NEC limits charging load on 30A rated receptacles to 24A and it's not smart to charge at any higher rates. I also said that the CMP specified straight-blade receptacles for EV charging because twist-lock receptacles and plugs aren't designed for continuous EV charging and that I've seen them melt from continuous loads. I also said that many 30A receptacles have melted from 30A EV charging load. ALL that is 100 pct true, whether it hurts your ego or not.

Using an adapter to plug a 50A load into a 30A receptacle with a 30A breaker violates code from the start. That's on you.

Show me specifically where Ford says you can charge an EV with a full 30A continuous load off Pro Power Onboard.

You can't.

In fact, if you use a 40A EVSE on that converter cord you will cause even more of an issue. And if you connect an 80A EVSE to it, itll try to draw even more - let's hope the breaker works. And Ford doesn't say that you can't do that, so I guess according to you Ford is advocating 80A EVSE's.

But, alas, no that isn't the case. Ford never said 30A continuous is within spec. They never told anyone to do it, and anyone who does it is violating the NEC.

My best to you, but I won't engage you anymore on your rants. There's plenty out there to back up my experience here. Good luck out there.

Sir, I do not wish to spar with or argue with you. I just stated the facts and conclusions based on exactly what you wrote. Ford provides a 30A mobile charger with its trucks. It demonstrates those trucks in its advertising and owners manual using that 30A device, which CANNOT be derated, charging other vehicles, which is, by any definition, a continuous activity. You specifically say, and again confirm above, that this exceeds the rating and avisable usage of that outlet. I am sorry if you think I am misinterpreting your statement or being dramatic, but I do not believe I have mischaracterized what you said before or in response here in any way.

You are quite specifically saying that if we charge as Ford has advised us to in pictures and in marketing, it IS dangerous, that in your experience and specific code knowledge "plugs aren't designed for continuous EV charging and that I've seen them melt from continuous loads. I also said that many 30A receptacles have melted from 30A EV charging load." It has nothing to do with my ego or what I think. All I said was that if you are right, it will be incumbent on Ford to either replace the outlet with one that is rated for the activity for which they sold it, or prove you wrong. For now I'm going with Ford's very specific advice and recommendation, notwithstanding your obvious expertise on the topic.

So yeah, BS - I'm not taking some rando forum poster's advice to not use my truck as designed and sold for a key function for which it was purchased, and for which there is no alternative (the chargers cannot be downrated). No rant, but your continual "I know better than anyone here AND Ford on this forum with respect to electrical expertise" is sometimes interesting and welcome - but your absolute statement that it is out of spec and potentially dangerous is inflammatory and would have us literally not using a function in our truck out of fear, with no alternative. There is nothing we can do with your advice except either not charge an EV using that outlet, or go out and buy a special charger that has adjustable amperage settings. Or sue Ford for product misrepresentation. I have lots of pictures of burned outlets and connections too. Some on my own boats. Proves nothing.

 

[Firestop]

Points taken from both of you EXCEPT that Ford and some others provide no mechanism for setting charge rate, so booyah, checkmate. Great advice with no practical application. You want to give your buddy with a Lightning a charge? Take your chances is what you are saying, because Ford's engineering and marketing are f'd up. No surprise, but my point was that Ford DOES say you can charge EVs with our trucks. Flasher says the supplied 30 AMP outlet isn't safe under code specs and the outlet manufacturer's specs for doing a continuous charge. And yet there's no way to de-rate a charge on many chargers, including the supplied Ford mobile charger, which IS 30 AMPS.

Many of us now have the needed adapter to supply a charge to either our truck from someone else, or to someone else. Flasher says that's out of spec. Ford very specifically says it isn't, except perhaps in very obscure contradictory fine print that you'd have to be an electrician to either find or understand. Meanwhile there's a big color brochure showing continuous charging with that very outlet, again with no provision for setting rate. So yeah, I gotta call BS unless or until Ford sends out an alert or provides a recall notice with a bold yellow sticker, or alternate outlet format that is compatible with safe continuous charging at the provided amperage. Because what Flasher is alleging is that Ford has sold us a product that is likely to cause fires as demonstrated in its marketing, and is unsuited for purpose, a serious legal conundrum for them if true.

So, I’m not sure how to interpret your chess reference, but I’m not trying to be competitive here…or, saying I’m correct and you’re wrong.

My point was that I felt your BS call was misdirected…..

• Yes, there is a potential risk if you use the FMC as Ford illustrated
• Yes, it can be done with less risk using a mobile charger and/or vehicle that can set to 24A max.
• Yes, it is BS that directions from Ford don’t account for the limitations of the equipment they recommended/illustrated for EV charging using ProPower

My pointing out of facts don’t require me to provide a “practical solution “ to an issue I didn’t create. However, I did suggest that Ford needs to update their original guidance, which I will give them the benefit that their original directions were nothing nefarious.

Have a good evening, and a nice evening

 

[FlasherZ]

I will take an electrician's advice over a Ford marketing ad or ploy any day. I've learned not to trust marketecture. My best to you, and I hope you remain safe.

 

[Maquis]

True, but it is sad that Ford shows the rendition of their portable charger in their instructions that come with that charger that can’t be used with the adapter they recommend …….

It can be used…..with a Tesla!

 

[FlasherZ]

It can be used…..with a Tesla!

Yeah, it's unfortunate. I've seen plenty of examples of unsafe marketing. In this case, Ford is its own worst enemy.

In the official Tesla FAQ I wrote, I addressed adapter cords and the risks. If Ford offered an L14-30P twistlock for their mobile charger, it is probably reasonably safe by limiting to 24A. Except that is unlikely to happen because of the NEC requirement for straight-blade plugs only. So they rely upon adapter cords that can't tell the mobile charger 24A max. Either solution violates code, but supplying an L14-30P plug for the mobile charger would be safest.

 

[BennyTheBeaver]

 

[GDN]

In the OP’s case, he was charging a Tesla, which can be dialed down.
So the Lightning can safely charge a Tesla, but not a Mach-E!

True - the story was about Tesla originally and I know they can be dialed down, but the topic turned to what Ford intended the plug to do perhaps. If they ever thought it might charge another Ford they have no way to properly do so if you need to dial the charger down.

 

[TaxmanHog]

Please exercise caution in what ever techniques you employ with Pro-Power.

This thread has about burned itself out (pun intended ) on a serious note for a Friday night.....

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