PAAK being removed from Extended Range Lariat and Platinum Lightning production!?

[TaxmanHog]

How do you know if you have heated mirrors? I don't see anything that says mine are heated (or that they aren't) but the one time i had ice build up i thought they cleared themselves on warm up.

Turn on your rear window defroster, they sideview mirrors should also defrost

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[Artificial Intelligence]

how do i know if my lightning has phone as a key feature? I've Lariat SR

 

[Lime Green]

how do i know if my lightning has phone as a key feature? I've Lariat SR

It's included with the CoPilot 360 Assist 2.0 package. It's included on Lariat ER 511A and Platinum. For Lariat SR it's an add-on. If you have BlueCruise and Active Park Assist, you have PAAK. Otherwise you don't.

 

[mattskr]

Right now you can't trust it Ford is having problems locking people out of Ford pass because they think you have given credentials to a 3rd party which leaves you stranded. That may be why they are leaving it off.

This might be it, although if so it's pretty lame excuse to remove the feature entirely. My Fordpass stopped working last month. Meaning I couldn't start my 2018 or even log into Ford.com to check on Lightning build status.

It took Ford a bit to figure out what was going on but I had been locked out of my account for excessive 3rd party usage-I was using HomeBridge! They would not re-enable my account until I removed the script.

That said, my truck is being built this week so hopefully it's ok and still has this feature or else I'm going to be seriously bummed.

 

[metroshot]

how do i know if my lightning has phone as a key feature? I've Lariat SR

You probably don't unless you got the option package on your SR.

My SR base (no options) does not have it.

OTOH, my incoming $50K Mustang Mach E has it standard - sort of silly isn't it that my $69K Lariat Lightning does not ?

 

[TaxmanHog]

This might be it, although if so it's pretty lame excuse to remove the feature entirely. My Fordpass stopped working last month. Meaning I couldn't start my 2018 or even log into Ford.com to check on Lightning build status.

It took Ford a bit to figure out what was going on but I had been locked out of my account for excessive 3rd party usage-I was using HomeBridge! They would not re-enable my account until I removed the script.

That said, my truck is being built this week so hopefully it's ok and still has this feature or else I'm going to be seriously bummed.

I got my FORD.COM account locked up twice for similar reasons, Charge Smart Mass, a program used by National Grid to give consumer credits for charging outside peak load demand time frames, the credit was 5c a kWh in summer and 3c in the winter months, we had to drop out of the program after a month and won't go back until FORD approves these third party systems

 

[snb2557]

talked to the Lightning Marketing Department today about removals and the rep knew nothing about PAAK in the context of it being removed now

 

[neririn]

Agreed completely. PAAK has been one of the very pleasant surprises for me with my Lightning. I knew I'd be getting it but never gave it much thought. Once I got it set up I haven't carried my keys since. Very liberating.

it's great until it doesn't work. PaaK has failed for me in my Lariat ER more than it has ever worked. keys stayed home exactly 1 day.

 

[paulalex01]

This doesn't make sense. As far as I know PAAK is just software that uses the existing Bluetooth connection. No new chips needed. Unless they are pulling phone connectivity completely which would be a very bad move.

It's probably a reliability issue. PaaK on my MME has been a real issue. It has left me and my wife stranded, her twice. We received a second FOB because of being stranded. Ford Pass and somewhat SYNC 4, in my mind and I'm a retired software engineer, are BETA software. And, the biggest problem FoMoCo has is that people are asking mechanics to do software diagnosis. FoMoCo needs a direct customer interface to its software problems. Reporting a software problem to a service manager just adds to the frustration.

 

[VTbuckeye]

My Paak works as long as I open the ford pass app. I have a key in the truck hidden away with the battery removed so that if it fails I will not be stranded. A 12V failure would still be problematic. In my 2011 I would regularly lock the keys inside and use the door code. This is almost equivalent. I just don't want someone to break in and have full use because the proximity key fob is in the car.

 

[Pioneer74]

My Paak works as long as I open the ford pass app. I have a key in the truck hidden away with the battery removed so that if it fails I will not be stranded. A 12V failure would still be problematic. In my 2011 I would regularly lock the keys inside and use the door code. This is almost equivalent. I just don't want someone to break in and have full use because the proximity key fob is in the car.

Why carry a backup FOB when you have the passcode to start it?

 

[TaxmanHog]

Why carry a backup FOB when you have the passcode to start it?

Total LVB 12v failure, I think the flat door key should be a must carry in wallet for everyone, so you can get into the vehicle, but if the LVB is dead, we're not driving anyway.

 

[Aspesi4]

I got my FORD.COM account locked up twice for similar reasons, Charge Smart Mass, a program used by National Grid to give consumer credits for charging outside peak load demand time frames, the credit was 5c a kWh in summer and 3c in the winter months, we had to drop out of the program after a month and won't go back until FORD approves these third party systems

I got locked out a few weeks ago. I assumed it was either the Charge Smart program or the 3rd party Mach E widget. Hopefully I don't get locked out again because at 44 cents /kWhr in Massachusetts right now, I could use the 3 cent savings!

 

[tls]

This doesn't make sense. As far as I know PAAK is just software that uses the existing Bluetooth connection. No new chips needed. Unless they are pulling phone connectivity completely which would be a very bad move.

I would assume, from a fair bit of painful experience with similar systems, that their PAAK implementation relies on high precision timing and other low-layer profiling information to defeat relay attacks and other forms of tampering that involve additional devices.

This is not standard Bluetooth stuff and though a customer of Ford's size and prominence can likely bludgeon any IC vendor into cooperation, considerable development work is likely to be required any time they change digital (Bluetooth IC) and possibly even analog components of the overall implementation.

This is almost certainly what held up PAAK deployment at initial release, and it is going to pose a significant component sourcing and development burden for them any time the parts they last qualified get scarce.

It's even possible they decided they had to switch to a part where their techniques simply couldn't work at all and don't know whether they can get to acceptable levels of Type I and Type II error to safely enable PAAK, yet.

 

[sotek2345]

I would assume, from a fair bit of painful experience with similar systems, that their PAAK implementation relies on high precision timing and other low-layer profiling information to defeat relay attacks and other forms of tampering that involve additional devices.

This is not standard Bluetooth stuff and though a customer of Ford's size and prominence can likely bludgeon any IC vendor into cooperation, considerable development work is likely to be required any time they change digital (Bluetooth IC) and possibly even analog components of the overall implementation.

This is almost certainly what held up PAAK deployment at initial release, and it is going to pose a significant component sourcing and development burden for them any time the parts they last qualified get scarce.

It's even possible they decided they had to switch to a part where their techniques simply couldn't work at all and don't know whether they can get to acceptable levels of Type I and Type II error to safely enable PAAK, yet.

Thanks! Interesting info.

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