Battery Preconditioning

[Revenge]

Anyone have any values for temp that the preconditioning is trying to get to? Or what the idea battery temp is?

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[TaxmanHog]

The Mach-E does warming of the battery on very cold nights. Energy is pulled in like 15 minute increments. Happen over 2 years maybe 5 times or so that I noticed. I can't imagine the truck is different.

The key is .... that we didn't have any brutal cold nights last winter, I look forward to validating your Mach-E experiences, my Emporia log never showed any battery preservation consumption last year.

 

[TaxmanHog]

People keep saying that the battery gets preconditioned without being plugged in, or during a remote start, and it doesn't. Does it warm up just from running? Yes. Does it get anywhere near the temperature of a departure time? It does not. A departure time can take close to 90 minutes including warming the cabin. A remote start is 15 minutes, so it's impossible anyway.

Agreed, two 15 minute max sessions only served to warm the cabin and little if any goes to the battery warming.

 

[Zprime29]

Although not entirely on topic, I did want to mention that the battery will also precondition if you have a DCFC set in nav and are within range. Driving from Tucson to El Paso in 110F temps I watched the battery temp gauge move from right of the middle to exactly middle as I approached an EA location. I think Rick knows how close you need to get, I forget off the top of my head.

 

[mb0220]

Is it "good for the battery" to warm it up with departure time preconditioning?

Or is it JUST a way to maximize efficiency (and therefore range) by using shore power to do what the truck would otherwise use battery energy to do when you start your drive?

This is my quandry. If the latter is true then I wouldn't bother with deparure times on typical driving days when I only use a small fraction of my battery capacity.

 

[RickLightning]

Although not entirely on topic, I did want to mention that the battery will also precondition if you have a DCFC set in nav and are within range. Driving from Tucson to El Paso in 110F temps I watched the battery temp gauge move from right of the middle to exactly middle as I approached an EA location. I think Rick knows how close you need to get, I forget off the top of my head.

It was 30km (18.6) miles. They MAY have recently increased that to give it more time to warm, that hasn't been confirmed.

When you do a departure time with the Mach-E, it heats to 59 degrees.
When you are driving to a DC charger, it heats to around 77 degrees.

 

[RickLightning]

Is it "good for the battery" to warm it up with departure time preconditioning?

Or is it JUST a way to maximize efficiency (and therefore range) by using shore power to do what the truck would otherwise use battery energy to do when you start your drive?

This is my quandary. If the latter is true then I wouldn't bother with deparure times on typical driving days when I only use a small fraction of my battery capacity.

One of the challenges is that the factual answers aren't really known, because we didn't design the truck's systems nor are we privy to the exact specifics of the battery system. People often use lithium battery concepts, but the reality is that these systems are much more complex and designed for extreme cold and extreme warm.

The bigger reality is that there are so many factors involved and there is no scientific way to do anything, so nobody can say "if you do X, you'll get 12 years instead of 10.5". Or "if you do Y, you'll have 90% capacity at 8 years instead of 84%".

The general belief is that preconditioning the battery with a departure time allows you to achieve better range on that first leg of the trip. The reality is that when you unplug and start driving, the battery DROPS in temperature as the cold air hits it. I watched this happen last year with the Mach-E. Dropped to the low 40s as I recall, from the 59 it had heated up to.

While the battery isn't happy departing in 20 degree weather, it is protected by the systems and prevents you from abusing it by limiting power until it warms up (which you can see on the truck's gauges, and Mach-E owners cannot see anywhere).

I don't use departure times for local driving. Any "payoff" in better range on a local drive is pretty clearly used up by the amount of energy used to precondition. I do use departure times for trips where the temp is below 50 degrees when I depart.

On a recent trip, we left hotels that didn't have chargers and the temps were 27 degrees. My Mach-E got 1.2, then 1.3, then 1.4... slowly climbing and the average on This Trip slowly going up. We ended up with legs with 2.3 vs. 2.8. Let's say I drove 150 miles. 150/2.8 = 53.6kW. 150/2.3 = 65.2kW. In that case, it's pretty clear that preconditioning would have been worth it, had I been able to.

But take that trip and make it 15 miles. 5.4kW vs. 6.5kW. It's not worth using 5 or more times that difference for a departure time.

 

[mb0220]

One of the challenges is that the factual answers aren't really known, because we didn't design the truck's systems nor are we privy to the exact specifics of the battery system. People often use lithium battery concepts, but the reality is that these systems are much more complex and designed for extreme cold and extreme warm.

The bigger reality is that there are so many factors involved and there is no scientific way to do anything, so nobody can say "if you do X, you'll get 12 years instead of 10.5". Or "if you do Y, you'll have 90% capacity at 8 years instead of 84%".

The general belief is that preconditioning the battery with a departure time allows you to achieve better range on that first leg of the trip. The reality is that when you unplug and start driving, the battery DROPS in temperature as the cold air hits it. I watched this happen last year with the Mach-E. Dropped to the low 40s as I recall, from the 59 it had heated up to.

While the battery isn't happy departing in 20 degree weather, it is protected by the systems and prevents you from abusing it by limiting power until it warms up (which you can see on the truck's gauges, and Mach-E owners cannot see anywhere).

I don't use departure times for local driving. Any "payoff" in better range on a local drive is pretty clearly used up by the amount of energy used to precondition. I do use departure times for trips where the temp is below 50 degrees when I depart.

On a recent trip, we left hotels that didn't have chargers and the temps were 27 degrees. My Mach-E got 1.2, then 1.3, then 1.4... slowly climbing and the average on This Trip slowly going up. We ended up with legs with 2.3 vs. 2.8. Let's say I drove 150 miles. 150/2.8 = 53.6kW. 150/2.3 = 65.2kW. In that case, it's pretty clear that preconditioning would have been worth it, had I been able to.

But take that trip and make it 15 miles. 5.4kW vs. 6.5kW. It's not worth using 5 or more times that difference for a departure time.

Thanks for that answer Rick! I am going to boil down the takeaway to be: "don't bother with departure times unless you need it to improve range for a long drive."

 

[Yellow Buddy]

Is it "good for the battery" to warm it up with departure time preconditioning?

Or is it JUST a way to maximize efficiency (and therefore range) by using shore power to do what the truck would otherwise use battery energy to do when you start your drive?

This is my quandry. If the latter is true then I wouldn't bother with deparure times on typical driving days when I only use a small fraction of my battery capacity.

I'm inclined to believe that it does nothing for the battery itself. These things have BMS that is designed to do exactly that - establish safe operating parameters. I haven't looked at our trucks but good BMS systems will throttle input/output to allow batteries to get up to temp, activate fans to cool them, as well as start heating systems if it gets too cold.

I would imagine we have a good BMS on our trucks as well.

So assuming we do, then preconditioning improves range once you're on the road. Is actually less efficient because you're using electricity sitting still, and potentially using battery cycles if you're not plugged in.

But all that is an assumption so I have no facts, just a thought of an uninformed guy...

 

[Maquis]

Thanks for that answer Rick! I am going to boil down the takeaway to be: "don't bother with departure times unless you need it to improve range for a long drive."

100%

 

[TaxmanHog]

Is it "good for the battery" to warm it up with departure time preconditioning?

Or is it JUST a way to maximize efficiency (and therefore range) by using shore power to do what the truck would otherwise use battery energy to do when you start your drive?

This is my quandry. If the latter is true then I wouldn't bother with deparure times on typical driving days when I only use a small fraction of my battery capacity.

It's a waste of time & energy on short hauls, I have a similar drive routine and it's generally not worth the $$ to performance & endurance.

Long trips are another story, then it's well worth optimizing for the start of the long trip, but when you get to the far point, park and make the return journey those benefits are partly lost when the battery cools down

 

[MickeyAO]

I read this exact same thing recently and came to the same conclusion. Would love for someone like @MickeyAO, who knows quite a bit about batteries, to weigh in on this if he would.

I know about batteries and cells, but I do not know the intricacies of this BMS or other systems in the truck.

I personally precondition the truck for my morning commute but mainly to have the seats and cabin set to the temperature I like.

 

[luebri]

It's a waste of time & energy on short hauls, I have a similar drive routine and it's generally not worth the $$ to performance & endurance.

Long trips are another story, then it's well worth optimizing for the start of the longm trip, but when you get to the far point, park and make the return journey those benefits are partly lost when the battery cools down

My preconditioning I have ends at 7AM. My off peak rate $0.07 goes til 7am so at that rate it’s worth the comfort in the morning. My morning mileage is typically 20 miles so not long. The other thing to note, is in cold climates in winter and for someone with no insulated garage your battery temp is always cold if you don’t precondition so every mile is inefficient… kind of a compounding factor if you don’t get the battery warm every 24 hours.

 

[Maquis]

My preconditioning I have ends at 7AM. My off peak rate $0.07 goes til 7am so at that rate it’s worth the comfort in the morning. My morning mileage is typically 20 miles so not long. The other thing to note, is in cold climates in winter and for someone with no insulated garage your battery temp is always cold if you don’t precondition so every mile is inefficient… kind of a compounding factor if you don’t get the battery warm every 24 hours.

In a 20 mile commute, you will use more electricity overall if you precondition.

 

[luebri]

In a 20 mile commute, you will use more electricity overall if you precondition.

I don’t disagree.

as I stated, I do it mainly for the comfort features, and my electricity rates are dirt cheap at that time

also a typical afternoon/evening commute will be more efficient as Darren Palmer from Ford has stated the battery loses very minimal temps each hour in the cold so obviously you will have longer to stay above ambient cold weather temps if you do precondition vs not

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