Top battery off to 90% every day?

[RickLightning]

You didn't say you were plugged into a charger...

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[Jim Lewis]

You didn't say you were plugged into a charger...

Sorry for that omission. I pretty much follow Ford's recommendation to keep the truck plugged in when parked if that option is available in one's setup. And my wife has to avoid tripping over the power cord every morning when she goes to work, exiting through the garage to her car now parked in the driveway!

 

[tnugentfl]

Rules of thumb

- It is best to keep battery between 30% and 80%-90%.

- Every time you charge a cell it loses a little life. Charging needlessly is something to be avoided.

- Conditioning battery for a brief period is better than running or charging it cold. If the battery is warm then preconditioning does nothing.

- DCFC is harder on battery than L2 charging at home.

Work within those rules and apply them to how you need to use the truck.

As an example... I have an ER with a daily short commute and always park in the garage which is kept above 10 degrees C. As such, I DO NOT charge every night because it would put needless wear on the battery with no benefits. I generally use the truck all week then charge it from around 35% back up to 85% on the weekend. I charge to 100% whenever going on a longer trip, as well as once every few weeks, whichever comes first.

If you don't have a garage then this doesn't apply. If you have a longer commute this doesn't apply. Etc. Use your head and work in those rules of thumb, don't try to take someone else's situation and clone it as everyone is different.

This is incorrect information. Frequent small charging sessions are better than longer, less frequent. If you charge everyday 5% or every 7 days 35% it is exactly the same amount of cycling, but more stressful on the battery. You are not eliminating any charging by waiting to charge.

 

[MickeyAO]

This is NOT the place for stories, anecdotes, YouTube videos, personal experiences, "Well my buddy Jimbo gets blah blah blah" etc. Post that elsewhere. This is what Ford says. Hopefully this can cut down on a lot of the misinformation that's being spread around.

Can I use 12 years of actually testing EVs and Li-ion cells for answering questions? Using hard data I have culled over the years on various Li-ion chemistries? Or is that anecdotal information that should be disregarded because Ford says something different?

 

[MickeyAO]

Rules of thumb

- It is best to keep battery between 30% and 80%-90%.

- Every time you charge a cell it loses a little life. Charging needlessly is something to be avoided.

- Conditioning battery for a brief period is better than running or charging it cold. If the battery is warm then preconditioning does nothing.

- DCFC is harder on battery than L2 charging at home.

Work within those rules and apply them to how you need to use the truck.

As an example... I have an ER with a daily short commute and always park in the garage which is kept above 10 degrees C. As such, I DO NOT charge every night because it would put needless wear on the battery with no benefits. I generally use the truck all week then charge it from around 35% back up to 85% on the weekend. I charge to 100% whenever going on a longer trip, as well as once every few weeks, whichever comes first.

If you don't have a garage then this doesn't apply. If you have a longer commute this doesn't apply. Etc. Use your head and work in those rules of thumb, don't try to take someone else's situation and clone it as everyone is different.

You might want to review my previous posts about charging deltas. Yes, you do damage every time you charge, but you do more damage with larger deltas. But what do I know?

 

[Jim Lewis]

I can charge my LVB by running my truck in accessory mode plugged into my FCSP.

You didn't say you were plugged into a charger...

I see in my original, first reply to Traconesu that I did say I was plugged when using accessory mode to charge my LVB. Sorry we both overlooked that in subsequent discussion...

 

[John Becker]

Can I use 12 years of actually testing EVs and Li-ion cells for answering questions? Using hard data I have culled over the years on various Li-ion chemistries? Or is that anecdotal information that should be disregarded because Ford says something different?

The way I'm reading it, I don't know that Ford is saying anything to the contrary. I'm not finding any contradictions. Ford says to charge to 90% daily. They don't say that 90% is the best practice for battery health. They are saying that 90% is better than 100%. That is true and not a contradiction to the research that @MickeyAO has been graciously providing us.

 

[Jim Lewis]

I'm wondering if the LVB is being charged from the FCSP rather than the HVB (or through current provided to the HVB from the FCSP) but I haven't tried to make a careful measurement.

More anecdotal evidence that my FCSP is charging my HVB, which is charging my LVB in accessory mode plugged in.

Just looked at my EV Battery Charge Requested gauge in OBDLink. The value is 0.8 A with the LVB SOC at 90% (went up from the low 80s % a few hours earlier). So, looks like my LVB is being charged from AC current thru the HVB. Maybe somebody who really knows what they're doing can advise how right or wrong my AC-powered charging conclusion is.

 

[MickeyAO]

More anecdotal evidence that my FCSP is charging my HVB, which is charging my LVB in accessory mode plugged in.

Just looked at my EV Battery Charge Requested gauge in OBDLink. The value is 0.8 A with the LVB SOC at 90% (went up from the low 80s % a few hours earlier). So, looks like my LVB is being charged from AC current thru the HVB. Maybe somebody who really knows what they're doing can advise how right or wrong my AC-powered charging conclusion is.

LVB powered by AC? Hard no. LVB powered by the HVB (through DC/DC converter) while HVB is on AC? Possible.

 

[Grumpy2]

Whether at Ford.com or via an OBDII scanner, you'll see the LVB charging (main ECU 14.8v, LVB 14.6v in full-accessory mode launched as described)

Jim, how do you find that information at Ford.com?

 

[Jim Lewis]

Jim, how do you find that information at Ford.com?

See the discussion up and down in this thread: https://www.f150lightningforum.com/...ges-center-screen-suspended.17603/post-355493

Here is a direct link that should take you directly to the page displaying your LVB %SOC after you sign into your Ford account: https://www.ford.com/myaccount/account-dashboard.

Keep in mind that the data on your Ford.com dashboard may be stale. I imagine that refreshing my FordPass app helps freshen it up, but I don't have any solid evidence that's so.

To get the Main ECU voltage, the LVB voltage, and the EV Battery Charge Requested, I had to use an ODBII scanner (I was using the OBDLink app with the OBDLink MX+ scanner, but other OBDII apps with other scanners may work as well - am very ignorant here - OBDLink MX+, since it uses classic BT, doesn't work with ABRP on iOS, though).

 

[Grumpy2]

Thanks Jim. 98% now, I will have to watch for changes.

 

[shutterbug]

while HVB is on AC? Possible.

That's exactly how LVB gets charged.
That's why you can get messages like this:

 

[Peddyr]

I charge to 100% every day during the winter because I have a standard range battery and drive a minimum of 120 miles per day. During the summer I charge to 90% because...well..its warmer.

 

[TaxmanHog]

Pardon the sketchy flow chart and high level assumption of how energy flows on EV's, in particular the Lightning, I'd love to see real flow charts and schematics of the Lightning's energy management system, I'm an electronics tech at heart, not just a "Taxman".

When the truck is plugged into the grid, the trucks user defined settings in the controller determines the HVB charging requirements, when the 240ac to 400dc converter is actively charging the HVB., the HVB motor contactors are locked out to prevent accidental driving while charging.

When the HVB reaches desired SOC, the charging stops and the truck goes to sleep.

If the truck is in a RUN/IDLE state, but plugged in to AC or DCFC, the HVB charging contactors close to energize all HVAC devices, AC Compressor, PTC heater, HVB to LVB charger, in this mode of operation the the AC to DC converter only supplies enough current to operate those devices, little if any energy is added to the HVB, but on occasion I've seen the HVB SOC creep above my set point very slowly, maybe 1-2% over an hour or so.

While this is active the LVB monitor determines when it will send a charging current from the HVB (that's being monitored by the HVB charge controller), fractionally the HVB charger and LVB charger are working in tandem net draw is from the grid.

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