Top battery off to 90% every day?

[ctuan13]

Can I use 12 years of actually testing EVs and Li-ion cells for answering questions? Using hard data I have culled over the years on various Li-ion chemistries? Or is that anecdotal information that should be disregarded because Ford says something different?

"bUt fOrD sAyS 90% sO tHaTs tHe rIgHt aNsWeR!"
Sources: [Owners Manual (2022)]

@MickeyAO : "I have done extensive research on NCM and NMC chemistries and basted on my testing of Lightning and comparable vehicle cells, my advice for daily charging is 85% displayed and to limit or avoid DC fast charging."
Source: (Being an actual expert)

Smoothbrains: "Nah, bro batteries last forever, there's nO dAmAgE! Elon said so!"

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[John Becker]

Question for @MickeyAO:
August 31, 2021, you said in part,

"#2 is charge at the slowest rate possible to meet your SOC before the beginning of the day."​

Is that a reference to L3 vs. L2? Or L2 vs. L1? Or both?
The former has been well established, but what about the later? And if L1 is better for SOH, how significant is the difference?
For obvious reasons, L1 is not a viable option for most people. However, I use about 10 kWh per day and could utilize L1 daily. Should I buy an L1 or stick with my 40 Amp Grizzl-e?

 

[mr.Magoo]

Right. It is a great response when some says "EVs don't work in the cold".

Really? Top 5 countries....

Well... Don't underestimate the power of economics, it's far from apples to apples.

You're looking at gas prices that is 3-4 times higher than in the US and electricity that's "only" 2 times (or there about) higher. Couple that with various forms of government incentives and an EV becomes a no-brainer IF you can make it work with the downsides.

Most Nordic people don't commute very far (I'd say the average is 5 miles and most are less than 20), in fact, a lot of them take public transportation or their bicycle.

 

[MickeyAO]

Question for @MickeyAO:
August 31, 2021, you said in part,

"#2 is charge at the slowest rate possible to meet your SOC before the beginning of the day."​

Is that a reference to L3 vs. L2? Or L2 vs. L1? Or both?
The former has been well established, but what about the later? And if L1 is better for SOH, how significant is the difference?
For obvious reasons, L1 is not a viable option for most people. However, I use about 10 kWh per day and could utilize L1 daily. Should I buy an L1 or stick with my 40 Amp Grizzl-e?

First, there is no L3 chargers available. If I recall, SAE just recently issued the L3 standard, but I doubt it will be implemented in US homes. You may be confusing it with DCFC (of which there are currently two levels of DCFC defined by SAE with the third level not defined).

Second, the statement stands on it's own merit. The slower the current the better. While both my wife's EV6 and my Lightening could handle a 48 A EVSE (with my truck capable of 80 A), we get by on a single 40 A EVSE.

With my use case, I could probably get by with an L1 EVSE, but it is not something I'm interested in. Remember, my advice in most of the posts were how to make the cells last virtually forever, and a lot of times I stated that I was not going to follow my own advice.

 

[John Becker]

First, there is no L3 chargers available. If I recall, SAE just recently issued the L3 standard, but I doubt it will be implemented in US homes. You may be confusing it with DCFC (of which there are currently two levels of DCFC defined by SAE with the third level not defined).

I used L3 as shorthand for DCFC. I think that's how most people refer to DCFC. Maybe I'm wrong.

 

[MickeyAO]

I used L3 as shorthand for DCFC. I think that's how most people refer to DCFC. Maybe I'm wrong.

I had a Vice President of another Division at the Institute come to me for advice about 2 and a half years ago as they were breaking into the EV world (remember the white hat hackers I have mentioned before?) and had to tell him to stop using L3 to describe DCFC if he wanted his clients to take him seriously. I also had to introduce him to the term Electric Vehicle Service Equipment (EVSE)

 

[lightningtamer]

Made it to page 4, so, sorry if this was stated already, the actual battery capacity, vs usable power leaves around 10% unused. The 80-85% concept comes from individuals testing on batteries alone, charging to 90% as per Ford's battery management charges the batteries to somewhere in the low 80% range, chemically. In other words, you're all right.

 

[Maquis]

Made it to page 4, so, sorry if this was stated already, the actual battery capacity, vs usable power leaves around 10% unused. The 80-85% concept comes from individuals testing on batteries alone, charging to 90% as per Ford's battery management charges the batteries to somewhere in the low 80% range, chemically. In other words, you're all right.

Not all of the buffer is at the upper end. If you want to stay below 80% of total capacity, you need to stop at 85%.

 

[John Becker]

If L1 is better than L2 for SOH due to it being a slower charge, then it seems like simply setting my Grizzl-e to charge at 16 Amps, rather than 40 Amps, would be a good compromise and only add an extra two or three hours to my nightly charge.
What say you @MickeyAO?

 

[TaxmanHog]

If L1 is better than L2 for SOH due to it being a slower charge, then it seems like simply setting my Grizzl-e to charge at 16 Amps, rather than 40 Amps, would be a good compromise and only add an extra two or three hours to my nightly charge.
What say you @MickeyAO?

It may take longer to precondition the battery via the departure timer as compared to 30 or 40 amps, but I guess the BMS system would compute an appropriate start time.

 

[EdRudy]

I've been charing to 80% since I took delivery but only because it takes as much time to charge from 20% to 80% as it does to charge from 80% to 100%. At least that's what I've read and heard. If I am wrong I would love to know...

 

[Maquis]

I've been charing to 80% since I took delivery but only because it takes as much time to charge from 20% to 80% as it does to charge from 80% to 100%. At least that's what I've read and heard. If I am wrong I would love to know...

You seem to be describing the charging curve for DCFC, not L2 AC, which is generally what this thread is about.

 

[carys98]

You seem to be describing the charging curve for DCFC, not L2 AC, which is generally what this thread is about.

I've been charing to 80% since I took delivery but only because it takes as much time to charge from 20% to 80% as it does to charge from 80% to 100%. At least that's what I've read and heard. If I am wrong I would love to know...

As @Maquis says above you are thinking of DC. You start to lose time when the truck is requesting less than the equipment can supply. That happens a lot sooner when there is 100 kW or more available on DC. The curve below shows my last 100% charge on an SR battery using a 48A (11.5 kW) EVSE. I had taken a short drive earlier that day and the first spike is charging me back to 80%. At 8:42 pm I hit the charge to 100% button and at 10:34 pm the truck started to slow down the charge. I'm estimating the 98.5% based on the time, an average of 11 kW, and about 10% loss. Regardless, it spent over 2 hours squeezing the last few electrons into the battery.

 

[MickeyAO]

If L1 is better than L2 for SOH due to it being a slower charge, then it seems like simply setting my Grizzl-e to charge at 16 Amps, rather than 40 Amps, would be a good compromise and only add an extra two or three hours to my nightly charge.
What say you @MickeyAO?

I don't give recommendations for an individuals needs. I only provide factual information based on 12 years of cycling cells on how to make the cells last virtually forever. Remember, I don't follow all of my own advice.

You get to make the decision on what meets your needs and even if you want to completely disregard my advice (like I do for many situations)

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