Sponsored

DCFC station cost

msadan

Well-known member
First Name
Dan
Joined
Nov 29, 2022
Threads
11
Messages
112
Reaction score
212
Location
Lafayette IN
Vehicles
2023 F-150 Lightning Pro
I just had an interesting conversation with the owner of the Toyota dealership where I’m currently charging. The dealership has a single ChargePoint 62kW station. The cost to charge here is $.85/kWh. He said that their electricity cost is seventy some cents per kWh, and in addition to that ChargePoint charges him 10% of the cost of each charging session. He said that their $.85/kWh price is essentially at the break even point. And that of course doesn’t even factor in the cost of the equipment, which he said was around $100k including installation.
He also mentioned that Toyota strongly encouraged the DCFC installation, but did not require it. He owns a Hyundai dealership too, where DCFC installation is mandated by the manufacturer.
Just thought that it was interesting to hear about charging costs from a different perspective.

Ford F-150 Lightning DCFC station cost image
Sponsored

 
Last edited:

adoublee

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 30, 2021
Threads
12
Messages
749
Reaction score
685
Location
Midwest
Vehicles
2 EVs
Total BS. Maybe that is a blended per kWh cost with new demand charges if the charger has very little kWh throughput and demand of facility is not controlled.

And unfortunately Chargepoint wasn't a great decision - they are locked in to their charge management system versus using an open protocol and taking advantage of competition.
 

RickLightning

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 17, 2022
Threads
80
Messages
5,046
Reaction score
6,683
Location
SE MI
Vehicles
'22 Lightning ER Lariat,'22 Mach-E Premium 4X
A quick Google search shows that his rate information may be wrong...

HOWEVER, maybe he is looking at the incremental cost of electricity, i.e. added to his bill after all his other use? Still seems crazy high.

Too bad he spent money on a 62.5kW charger...

Ford dealer I stopped at in Nevada had two brand new 120kW chargers, labeled Ford. Cables were the heaviest I've ever experienced in 3 years. I hit 112kW and it seemed slow compared to EA...
 
OP
OP
msadan

msadan

Well-known member
First Name
Dan
Joined
Nov 29, 2022
Threads
11
Messages
112
Reaction score
212
Location
Lafayette IN
Vehicles
2023 F-150 Lightning Pro
FWIW he had separate service for the DCFC only, completely separate from the dealership’s electrical service. He had calculated the effect that the demand charge would have if he had connected the DCFC to the dealership’s service and it would have been huge. I have some experience with commercial electric service and demand charges, and I suspect that he is correct in assuming this. He also said that with the separate DCFC service the cost per kWh would go down with higher usage, which also seems reasonable. It’s kind of a catch 22 situation: to get the cost per kWh down there needs to be higher usage of the DCFC, but to get higher usage the rate charged for DCFC needs to be lower.
 

Sponsored

Yellow Buddy

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 5, 2022
Threads
23
Messages
2,311
Reaction score
3,025
Location
Mid-Atlantic
Vehicles
F-150L Pro, Rivian R1T, Model S, Model X
Occupation
Smart Ass

cdherman

Well-known member
First Name
David
Joined
Jul 18, 2023
Threads
11
Messages
140
Reaction score
145
Location
Kansas City
Vehicles
RAV4 Prime, 2016 Leaf
Bear in mind that the electric utilities on one hand want to sell electricity and on the otherhand, they don't. They hate large point demands., especially erratic or unexpected. They like new residential developments where from experience they can predict loads.

Ask them for something out of their norm -- you will pay.
 

VTbuckeye

Well-known member
First Name
Joseph
Joined
Jan 15, 2022
Threads
5
Messages
916
Reaction score
878
Location
Vermont
Vehicles
22 Lightning Lariat ER max tow built Aug 22, 16 XC90T8, 22 XC40 P8 Recharge
Some utilities have special rate plans for EV charging. Low utilization coupled with a high demand charge can make the financials if dcfc untenable as a business model, particularly if you want to pass those costs on to the consumer.
 

2sleep

Active member
First Name
Bob
Joined
Jun 7, 2023
Threads
1
Messages
44
Reaction score
37
Location
Western NC
Vehicles
23 Lightning Lariat Antimatter Blue, 2008 Prius
Occupation
Retired
I happen to charge at an EVgo station a few weeks back when I was approached by an electrician working on the station. We got to talking and as he he explained it, the stations take AC power, convert it to DC power and hold it in batteries on site to pump into vehicles. Apparently like all batteries, with repeated high intensity and frequent use they degrade. This is why you may have a peak charge starting out at 170 that quickly falls to a half or a third of that. He also said the each unit in a station has its own battery "pack" so if one 350 charger starts at 67Kwh, switch to a diffrent one at the station and you have a better chance at getting a decent charge rate.
It sounds plausible to me but I certainly don't believe everything I hear.

Thoughts anyone?
 

potato

Well-known member
First Name
John
Joined
Feb 1, 2024
Threads
0
Messages
252
Reaction score
396
Location
BC, Canada
Vehicles
2023 F150 Lightning XLT ER
I happen to charge at an EVgo station a few weeks back when I was approached by an electrician working on the station. We got to talking and as he he explained it, the stations take AC power, convert it to DC power and hold it in batteries on site to pump into vehicles. Apparently like all batteries, with repeated high intensity and frequent use they degrade. This is why you may have a peak charge starting out at 170 that quickly falls to a half or a third of that. He also said the each unit in a station has its own battery "pack" so if one 350 charger starts at 67Kwh, switch to a diffrent one at the station and you have a better chance at getting a decent charge rate.
It sounds plausible to me but I certainly don't believe everything I hear.

Thoughts anyone?
Some stations are battery supported - around here they are made by "Freewire" and appear at On The Run gas station/convenience stores most often. It's a way to avoid the high demand charges but the tradeoff is low performance (charging rates) if the station gets heavily used.

Many (most?) chargers are not battery supported though. They can give full speed no matter how long or how often someone uses them, in theory.
 

Sponsored

bmwhitetx

Well-known member
First Name
Bruce
Joined
May 21, 2021
Threads
40
Messages
1,619
Reaction score
2,252
Location
DFW-Texas
Vehicles
2022 F150 Lightning Lariat ER
Occupation
Retired engineer

2sleep

Active member
First Name
Bob
Joined
Jun 7, 2023
Threads
1
Messages
44
Reaction score
37
Location
Western NC
Vehicles
23 Lightning Lariat Antimatter Blue, 2008 Prius
Occupation
Retired
Is one brand of charger only using batteries or any that never use them?
 

metroshot

Well-known member
First Name
Pat
Joined
Aug 26, 2021
Threads
97
Messages
2,127
Reaction score
1,749
Location
Montclair, CA
Vehicles
2022 Lariat F150L + 2023 MME
Occupation
Networking Tech
Wow, that's pricey even for So Calif rates.

My home cost is $0.63 / kWh ( peak hours).
Tesla Supercharger is $0.34 / kWh (peak hours).
 

hturnerfamily

Well-known member
First Name
William
Joined
Jan 8, 2022
Threads
45
Messages
1,889
Reaction score
2,263
Location
rural Georgia
Vehicles
22 LIGHTNING PRO IcedBlueSilver 8/23/2022
Occupation
Owner
People 'say' a lot of things, especially off the cuff and without regards to real-world facts, and we sometimes 'hear' things ourselves, that may not have been actually said...

so, do you REALLY think a business owner, whether a car dealer or not, would sink over $100,000.00 into a 'charge station', where he is charged 70cents per kWh and ONLY charges the customer 85??

no, I'll call BUNK on that...

People overestimate MANY MANY things, in general conversations, and yet when you look at the actual facts, if you ever can, you find out details they 'forgot' or conveniently left out...

I will think that his cost of electricity is NO WHERE NEAR what he is suggesting. I will also think that his cost of the equipment was not NEAR that high, either. But, that's his decision, regardless.
 

hturnerfamily

Well-known member
First Name
William
Joined
Jan 8, 2022
Threads
45
Messages
1,889
Reaction score
2,263
Location
rural Georgia
Vehicles
22 LIGHTNING PRO IcedBlueSilver 8/23/2022
Occupation
Owner
and,

along those lines...

we stopped at a Chargepoint 125kw yesterday at a ChicFilA... paid $6 for 25kw
...these are units hosted by Georgia Power
we later stopped at a Chargepoint 125kw at a 'city parking lot'... paid $17 for the same 25kw
...these are units hosted by the local EMC


wow : /
Sponsored

 
 





Top