DCFC station cost

[msadan]

I just had an interesting conversation with the owner of the Toyota dealership where I’m currently charging. The dealership has a single ChargePoint 62kW station. The cost to charge here is $.85/kWh. He said that their electricity cost is seventy some cents per kWh, and in addition to that ChargePoint charges him 10% of the cost of each charging session. He said that their $.85/kWh price is essentially at the break even point. And that of course doesn’t even factor in the cost of the equipment, which he said was around $100k including installation.
He also mentioned that Toyota strongly encouraged the DCFC installation, but did not require it. He owns a Hyundai dealership too, where DCFC installation is mandated by the manufacturer.
Just thought that it was interesting to hear about charging costs from a different perspective.

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[Refactoringdr]

I call BS on the ~$0.70/kWH. Remember, you are talking to a car dealer...
https://www.eia.gov/electricity/monthly/epm_table_grapher.php?t=epmt_5_6_a

 

[adoublee]

Total BS. Maybe that is a blended per kWh cost with new demand charges if the charger has very little kWh throughput and demand of facility is not controlled.

And unfortunately Chargepoint wasn't a great decision - they are locked in to their charge management system versus using an open protocol and taking advantage of competition.

 

[RickLightning]

A quick Google search shows that his rate information may be wrong...

HOWEVER, maybe he is looking at the incremental cost of electricity, i.e. added to his bill after all his other use? Still seems crazy high.

Too bad he spent money on a 62.5kW charger...

Ford dealer I stopped at in Nevada had two brand new 120kW chargers, labeled Ford. Cables were the heaviest I've ever experienced in 3 years. I hit 112kW and it seemed slow compared to EA...

 

[msadan]

FWIW he had separate service for the DCFC only, completely separate from the dealership’s electrical service. He had calculated the effect that the demand charge would have if he had connected the DCFC to the dealership’s service and it would have been huge. I have some experience with commercial electric service and demand charges, and I suspect that he is correct in assuming this. He also said that with the separate DCFC service the cost per kWh would go down with higher usage, which also seems reasonable. It’s kind of a catch 22 situation: to get the cost per kWh down there needs to be higher usage of the DCFC, but to get higher usage the rate charged for DCFC needs to be lower.

 

[Yellow Buddy]

I call BS on the ~$0.70/kWH. Remember, you are talking to a car dealer...
https://www.eia.gov/electricity/monthly/epm_table_grapher.php?t=epmt_5_6_a

It’s that darn minimum wage that’s made it so expensive.

 

[cdherman]

Bear in mind that the electric utilities on one hand want to sell electricity and on the otherhand, they don't. They hate large point demands., especially erratic or unexpected. They like new residential developments where from experience they can predict loads.

Ask them for something out of their norm -- you will pay.

 

[VTbuckeye]

Some utilities have special rate plans for EV charging. Low utilization coupled with a high demand charge can make the financials if dcfc untenable as a business model, particularly if you want to pass those costs on to the consumer.

 

[2sleep]

I happen to charge at an EVgo station a few weeks back when I was approached by an electrician working on the station. We got to talking and as he he explained it, the stations take AC power, convert it to DC power and hold it in batteries on site to pump into vehicles. Apparently like all batteries, with repeated high intensity and frequent use they degrade. This is why you may have a peak charge starting out at 170 that quickly falls to a half or a third of that. He also said the each unit in a station has its own battery "pack" so if one 350 charger starts at 67Kwh, switch to a diffrent one at the station and you have a better chance at getting a decent charge rate.
It sounds plausible to me but I certainly don't believe everything I hear.

Thoughts anyone?

 

[potato]

I happen to charge at an EVgo station a few weeks back when I was approached by an electrician working on the station. We got to talking and as he he explained it, the stations take AC power, convert it to DC power and hold it in batteries on site to pump into vehicles. Apparently like all batteries, with repeated high intensity and frequent use they degrade. This is why you may have a peak charge starting out at 170 that quickly falls to a half or a third of that. He also said the each unit in a station has its own battery "pack" so if one 350 charger starts at 67Kwh, switch to a diffrent one at the station and you have a better chance at getting a decent charge rate.
It sounds plausible to me but I certainly don't believe everything I hear.

Thoughts anyone?

Some stations are battery supported - around here they are made by "Freewire" and appear at On The Run gas station/convenience stores most often. It's a way to avoid the high demand charges but the tradeoff is low performance (charging rates) if the station gets heavily used.

Many (most?) chargers are not battery supported though. They can give full speed no matter how long or how often someone uses them, in theory.

 

[bmwhitetx]

Tesla has made several announcements about installing them along with solar panels. And EA put this out a few years ago: https://media.electrifyamerica.com/en-us/releases/164
But don't know if any of these really happened like they said it would.

 

[2sleep]

Is one brand of charger only using batteries or any that never use them?

 

[metroshot]

Wow, that's pricey even for So Calif rates.

My home cost is $0.63 / kWh ( peak hours).
Tesla Supercharger is $0.34 / kWh (peak hours).

 

[hturnerfamily]

People 'say' a lot of things, especially off the cuff and without regards to real-world facts, and we sometimes 'hear' things ourselves, that may not have been actually said...

so, do you REALLY think a business owner, whether a car dealer or not, would sink over $100,000.00 into a 'charge station', where he is charged 70cents per kWh and ONLY charges the customer 85??

no, I'll call BUNK on that...

People overestimate MANY MANY things, in general conversations, and yet when you look at the actual facts, if you ever can, you find out details they 'forgot' or conveniently left out...

I will think that his cost of electricity is NO WHERE NEAR what he is suggesting. I will also think that his cost of the equipment was not NEAR that high, either. But, that's his decision, regardless.

 

[hturnerfamily]

and,

along those lines...

we stopped at a Chargepoint 125kw yesterday at a ChicFilA... paid $6 for 25kw
...these are units hosted by Georgia Power
we later stopped at a Chargepoint 125kw at a 'city parking lot'... paid $17 for the same 25kw
...these are units hosted by the local EMC


wow : /

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