Why Range (still) matters.

[Grease Lightning]

as for the term 'Range', which gets people all riled up, for some reason, like the question that came up today on CNBC's interview with VW's CEO: "when ya'll gonna finally get an EV that gets at least 400 miles?"... "or 500?"...

As a long-time pure EV owner and driver, and now one for every family member, RANGE is truly NOT the 'end all' that some tend to lean toward...
believe me, when you 'learn' on a 70 mile LEAF, and yet ROAD TRIP anytime you wish, you WILL APPRECIATE 250 MILES OF RANGE on a 'standard' EV ... like my PRO, and like my wife's EV9, and like both of my youngest sons BOLTS.

Because, NOW, we are finally seeing the CHARGING LOCATION INFRASTRUCTURE finally starting to come to fruition ... THREE NEW SETS OF DUAL CHARGING STATIONS have just come on board within 25-50 miles around my immediate area, in three different cities, and in three different travel paths...

CHARGING LOCATIONS is the missing piece of the puzzle, NOT simply 'range'.

The general public only sees 'range' as the missing piece, but they will see that 'where' they can charge is the most important asset to an EV owner.

You are exactly right. The range of the EVs are not the problem anymore. It is the charger locations, or lack there of, that are the problem. The second is charge speed of some cars for level 2 and DCFC.

My daughter just bought a used Ioniq and Hyundai limited the level two charging at 7.x kw and DCFC at sub 50 kw. While it has a small 38kw battery, they were a little too conservative. So it is a great local car, but you have to know you will be sitting almost as long as my Lightning on a road trip.

EVs would be better served when we have a good balance of level 2 and DCFC chargers along the highway and hotel system. When that happens a 200-250 mile range will be more than adequate for the mass majority in the market.

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[NCMike]

I disagree with those saying range is not a problem anymore. As someone who doesn't live in a city or near a city, I can drive 250 real miles a day. That's hard in the winter on a lightning ER. I want my EV to perform similar to my ICE F150. Right now I can not leave my house and drive to destinations and back without going out of my way to find a charger. I DO NOT WANT to use public infrastructure. I want to charge at my house nightly and be ready to go again the next morning. If I have to charge on DCFCs then I am wasting time and money. Now don't get me wrong, DCFCs are necessary for long road trips and vacations and I have used the Tesla network for that. But for MY driving habits, I need an EV rated for 450 miles of range so I can make my daily trips in the winter. The GM trucks coming out have my full attention because of battery size alone.

 

[queuewho]

Just got back from a trip down i95 and back, and I still say range is not the issue, and I have an SR. I stop for quick breaks twice as often as I charge. If I could get the full ~120 to ~165 kw every time I exited, I'd never need to do a specific charging stop.

Side note, got a chance to go to the Buc-ees with the Mercedes branded chargepoints. That place is nuts. 6 charger hookups that were full speed though were very nice.

 

[Grease Lightning]

I disagree with those saying range is not a problem anymore. As someone who doesn't live in a city or near a city, I can drive 250 real miles a day. That's hard in the winter on a lightning ER. I want my EV to perform similar to my ICE F150. Right now I can not leave my house and drive to destinations and back without going out of my way to find a charger. I DO NOT WANT to use public infrastructure. I want to charge at my house nightly and be ready to go again the next morning. If I have to charge on DCFCs then I am wasting time and money. Now don't get me wrong, DCFCs are necessary for long road trips and vacations and I have used the Tesla network for that. But for MY driving habits, I need an EV rated for 450 miles of range so I can make my daily trips in the winter. The GM trucks coming out have my full attention because of battery size alone.

Sounds like your personal use case makes range an issue, but for the masses it is not.

Why are you opposed to public infrastructure? You mentioned “destinations”. Say that destination was your work and you were there for I don’t know an 8 hr work day, a 32 amp EVSE would provide you around 100 miles of additional range while your truck is parked anyway.

To your one comment of wanting an EV to work like an ICE, that is not a realistic expectation. For that need you really should consider a plug-in hybrid approach so you get the best of both worlds. I would have bought one if Ford would have offered a 150 mile range ecoboost version of the F150

 

[RickLightning]

Without a doubt at highway speeds the MME wins a range race. The MME has a lower stated range, but does better on the highway and takes less time to top up. It charges at nearly the same rate as the Lightning with a smaller battery - 91Kw I think. It all comes down to aerodynamics. MME is a better road tripper if you don't need to carry a truckload of gear ;-)

The MME charges slower than the Lightning. They take about the same amount of time to charge in my experience.

MME I get around 2.9 miles per kWh on the highway, or 264 miles of range.
Lightning I get around 1.9 miles per kWh on the highway, or 249 miles or range.

44% bigger battery, about 40% lower efficiency.

 

[Ffxdude]

I had the same problem at the beginning of April. I filed a complaint with the BBB when customer support said they couldn't refund me the difference between full rate and the pass+ rate. I'm very annoyed at EA right now.

Haven’t experienced this issue with EA, but had similar issues with Circle K and Tesla. Did you try disputing with the credit card company?

Tesla said the same thing, but graciously refunded all of the charges. After a week of back and forth sending screenshots of sessions, proof of membership, and pictures of per kWh costs in their app. Apparently they had a glitch in the app.

Circle K told me I was right and they’d refund the charges. Then they emailed me to tell me I was wrong the price I paid was right, their “USA driver plan” is not actually a USA wide pricing plan proceeded to deny my request for the difference. They also changed their wording on the app and deleted the rate that was in the contract section of the app. So I disputed the charges with the credit card company and they refunded the difference.

 

[invertedspear]

You haven't enrolled in Autocharge+ with EvGo?

No, I'm trying out Bluedot which has no fees and promises $0.30/kWh flat rate charging. Has worked for me at EVGo stations 3 out of 4 times so far. 2 of those times it worked the previous weekend at the exact same charger I was trying to use this weekend. Bad luck on connectivity of the charge station there I think, other's looked like they were having an issue, so even if I had Autocharge+ I likely would not have been able to charge

That looks like 225miles, what was your m/kwh? Sure seems doable with my 2.1 m/kwh average.

Either 1 of 2 things happened, or maybe both. Last time I went to Tucson in the F150L I forgot to charge up the night before, so I only had like 65% SOC to start, but I was getting 2.2-2.5 m/kWh there, then 1.9-2.1 on the way back. I had to charge, but I didn't start with a full battery, so it was expected.

This trip I have now added a bed cover, but it was also windy, and I was getting 1.6-1.9. Either I had the unfortunate luck of having the wind change directions on me and had a headwind both ways, or the bed cover is robbing some of my efficiency.

 

[Zprime29]

Haven’t experienced this issue with EA, but had similar issues with Circle K and Tesla. Did you try disputing with the credit card company?

Tesla said the same thing, but graciously refunded all of the charges. After a week of back and forth sending screenshots of sessions, proof of membership, and pictures of per kWh costs in their app. Apparently they had a glitch in the app.

Circle K told me I was right and they’d refund the charges. Then they emailed me to tell me I was wrong the price I paid was right, their “USA driver plan” is not actually a USA wide pricing plan proceeded to deny my request for the difference. They also changed their wording on the app and deleted the rate that was in the contract section of the app. So I disputed the charges with the credit card company and they refunded the difference.

I haven't yet, it's only like $10-15 since it was just two charging sessions but I was more interested in making sure EA knows there's a problem and gets it fixed. Hopefully the app update that Taxman noted got it patched up. The half way point between Tucson and El Paso only has EA stations. There's a pilot that is starting construction on a EVgo/Ultium station, can't wait for that to be an option.

 

[Zprime29]

Either 1 of 2 things happened, or maybe both. Last time I went to Tucson in the F150L I forgot to charge up the night before, so I only had like 65% SOC to start, but I was getting 2.2-2.5 m/kWh there, then 1.9-2.1 on the way back. I had to charge, but I didn't start with a full battery, so it was expected.

This trip I have now added a bed cover, but it was also windy, and I was getting 1.6-1.9. Either I had the unfortunate luck of having the wind change directions on me and had a headwind both ways, or the bed cover is robbing some of my efficiency.

That's very interesting. Tucson is a higher elevation than Phoenix, so I typically get better mpk going to Phoenix and slightly worse coming back to Tucson. Sounds like wind definitely played at least some role.

 

[NCMike]

Sounds like your personal use case makes range an issue, but for the masses it is not.

Why are you opposed to public infrastructure? You mentioned “destinations”. Say that destination was your work and you were there for I don’t know an 8 hr work day, a 32 amp EVSE would provide you around 100 miles of additional range while your truck is parked anyway.

To your one comment of wanting an EV to work like an ICE, that is not a realistic expectation. For that need you really should consider a plug-in hybrid approach so you get the best of both worlds. I would have bought one if Ford would have offered a 150 mile range ecoboost version of the F150

I am not against public infrastructure at all. I didn't mean to come across that way. The more chargers the better. We drove my wifes tesla on the last family trip and it was great not really worrying about where the next charging stop would be. And yes "the masses" don't need that range. But if the OEMs really want truck people to buy EV trucks, they are going to have to perform similar to ICE trucks.

I travel a lot in eastern NC and it is sparse. Anywhere east of I95 in NC is sad when it comes to charging. So instead of waiting who knows how many more years for public infrastructure to catch up, Id rather have a >200KWh battery pack EV truck right now. Hopefully GM and Ram can deliver what they are advertising. If we get that, then one could say that an EV truck working like an ICE truck is a realistic expectation.

 

[sotek2345]

The MME charges slower than the Lightning. They take about the same amount of time to charge in my experience.

MME I get around 2.9 miles per kWh on the highway, or 264 miles of range.
Lightning I get around 1.9 miles per kWh on the highway, or 249 miles or range.

44% bigger battery, about 40% lower efficiency.

Sounds about right. We get a little (few miles)more highway range out of our Lightning vs. our MME, but we have the MME GT which is less efficient.

Lightning is definitely the more comfortable ride though.

 

[Adventureboy]

The MME charges slower than the Lightning. They take about the same amount of time to charge in my experience.

MME I get around 2.9 miles per kWh on the highway, or 264 miles of range.
Lightning I get around 1.9 miles per kWh on the highway, or 249 miles or range.

44% bigger battery, about 40% lower efficiency.

You are right, they are pretty close if the chargers support the respective charge rates.

On my trip, the best charger I have access to is 150kw. At 115km/h (71mph) it takes about an hour to charge the Lightning and about 45 minutes to charge the MME for the trip in two stops. MME is 110-120kw dropping to about 84-90kw after 70% and Lightning is 120-130kw dropping to about 100kw after 70% on that charger. I see more actual highway range per minute DC charging the MME (with Nav set so it is more accurate). It would probably be the opposite on slower roads and certainly much closer with access to better chargers where I might see the 170kw the truck is capable of.

Some places here only have 100kw chargers (netting 66-75kw) or 50kw (netting 45-47kw) so MME wins by a larger margin in those cases with more range per minute.

I'd rather drive the Lightning so... TSC adapter ...... waiting......

 

[Pioneer74]

Without a doubt at highway speeds the MME wins a range race. The MME has a lower stated range, but does better on the highway and takes less time to top up. It charges at nearly the same rate as the Lightning with a smaller battery - 91Kw I think. It all comes down to aerodynamics. MME is a better road tripper if you don't need to carry a truckload of gear ;-)

I disagree. I've road tripped both. While the Mach-E has an efficiency benefit, charging from 10 to 80% or 90% will go quicker in the Lightning. The Lightning is more comfortable because of the size of the cabin.

So, you have to make a decision. Comfort or cost.

 

[invertedspear]

So, you have to make a decision. Comfort or cost.

I mean, most of us made that decision just in buying the lightning. It's not a cheap truck, though it's annoyingly a lot cheaper than when I bought it 6 months ago.

 

[FirstF150InCasco]

as for the term 'Range', which gets people all riled up, for some reason, like the question that came up today on CNBC's interview with VW's CEO: "when ya'll gonna finally get an EV that gets at least 400 miles?"... "or 500?"...

As a long-time pure EV owner and driver, and now one for every family member, RANGE is truly NOT the 'end all' that some tend to lean toward...
believe me, when you 'learn' on a 70 mile LEAF, and yet ROAD TRIP anytime you wish, you WILL APPRECIATE 250 MILES OF RANGE on a 'standard' EV ... like my PRO, and like my wife's EV9, and like both of my youngest sons BOLTS.

Because, NOW, we are finally seeing the CHARGING LOCATION INFRASTRUCTURE finally starting to come to fruition ... THREE NEW SETS OF DUAL CHARGING STATIONS have just come on board within 25-50 miles around my immediate area, in three different cities, and in three different travel paths...

CHARGING LOCATIONS is the missing piece of the puzzle, NOT simply 'range'.

The general public only sees 'range' as the missing piece, but they will see that 'where' they can charge is the most important asset to an EV owner.

The CEO of Ford made this exact point when he did a Lightning road trip a while back. He said, “The problem isn’t range anxiety. The problem is charging anxiety.”

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