Ah summer is here in the valley of the sun

[invertedspear]

I had a similar screen yesterday, after about 400 miles driving in 100 temps. I assume climate is the inside cooling, is it possible the max town compressor is considered an accessory? But what is counted as exterior temp?

Pretty sure that any cooling done to the battery is under "Exterior Temperature" but I've never been clear on what "accessories" contains. I'm guessing that Accessory is recharging the LVB, but that would include running the AC fans. Which would mean climate is only the energy used in either the heating element or the cooling compressor. Stands to reason that when it's 110ish out that we're going to use a lot of compressor "climate" power, as well as a decent amount of "accessory" blowing the fans. Curious how the power screen differentiates between compressor power used for battery cooling vs human cooling. Maybe it's able to just roughly estimate added draw or something. Lots of gray area there.

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[BSull]

I love the owners manual - sometimes.
Page 143 and 144 in the pdf version explain, although not very well, what the sections of the energy use are:
Climate Use high voltage climate components (electric A/C compressor and heater).
Driving and Route energy to propel the vehicle. Long explanation about driving styles etc.
Accessories low voltage stuff like climate system fans heated seats, but Pro Power Onboard is included in this also
Exterior temp energy losses due to outside temp and other conditions which reduce vehicle system efficiency.

 

[TaxmanHog]

Pretty sure that any cooling done to the battery is under "Exterior Temperature" but I've never been clear on what "accessories" contains. I'm guessing that Accessory is recharging the LVB, but that would include running the AC fans. Which would mean climate is only the energy used in either the heating element or the cooling compressor. Stands to reason that when it's 110ish out that we're going to use a lot of compressor "climate" power, as well as a decent amount of "accessory" blowing the fans. Curious how the power screen differentiates between compressor power used for battery cooling vs human cooling. Maybe it's able to just roughly estimate added draw or something. Lots of gray area there.

Possibly, the position of diverter valve on the non-max-tow trucks, and then principal energy to the exclusive AC compressor for the bulk of electric energy to chill or warm the battery.

 

[MM in SouthTX]

Also to Lightning owners, what do you think of the A/C in the truck? I'm coming from Toyota where the A/C is generally passable, but really struggles in July/August. Thanks!

A/C is solid. The ability to cool the cabin for 15-30’ before walking out to your hot truck in a parking lot is priceless.

Regarding how to keep your HVB cool…and understanding it’s a splurge that may be out of reach…I insulated my garage and put a mini-split A/C in it about 6 or 7 years ago. Game changer if you live in the south—especially if you live where it does not cool off at night.

If I come home with a hot truck, I roll down the windows when I park it. Next time I get in it’s cool inside.

It also transforms your work space into something comfortable.

 

[sdchris]

I don't envy you guys and gals that live between Palm Springs to Arizona. I was driving home from Flagstaff this past Friday and I was happy I chose to drive my wife's telluride instead of the lightning. It was 122 degrees between Coachella Valley and Palm Springs. I couldn't believe it! It was only 82 at my house! I'm thankful for the ocean breeze.

 

[Jim Lewis]

I drove the truck today, it was an interesting ride. Only went 5.1 miles as you'll see. Two photos, one car scanner screen shot the other of my center display this trip page. Actual temperature was 109 not 115 the truck is displaying.

Would be interesting to know what cabin temperature you had set: 70 degrees F can draw a lot more juice than 80 degrees F, for example. Also, did you have RECIRCULATE on for the cabin AC? That can make a difference, too. I find the recirculate setting is not "sticky" for my truck. I constantly have to turn it on again. I also always pick dash-level venting only for cooling (and that setting is "sticky"). Don't know if that makes a difference mechanically but since with just me in the truck, I get "driver-focused" venting with ~almost all the air blowing directly on me so I'm more comfortable with a higher temperature setting for the cabin.

 

[BSull]

Would be interesting to know what cabin temperature you had set: 70 degrees F can draw a lot more juice than 80 degrees F, for example. Also, did you have RECIRCULATE on for the cabin AC? That can make a difference, too. I find the recirculate setting is not "sticky" for my truck. I constantly have to turn it on again. I also always pick dash-level venting only for cooling (and that setting is "sticky"). Don't know if that makes a difference mechanically but since with just me in the truck, I get "driver-focused" venting with ~almost all the air blowing directly on me so I'm more comfortable with a higher temperature setting for the cabin.

I had 73 set in auto mode. Seat cooling not on, driver focused. Drove a quarter mile with the windows down to get the oven air out then closed them.

 

[Maxx]

I still don't understand how my truck works. It has not seen AZ kinda temps but it has seen over 100F. I have never seen the fan running when the truck is off plugged in or not but I have seen the fan going bananas as soon as I turn it on. I have never seen the temp gauge move away from center in summer even when battery Temps go up by 40 degrees.

This is from a drive today during which the truck saw max of 102F ambient temp. Coolant inlet temp and Coolant temp did not change at all after I started the car and drove it very gently (power band never exceeded 20% and minimized regen) for two 10 mile segments but battery temp went up. I don’t understand with coolant at 59, why the battery temp is still going up? I got the max tow package for the extra cooling for the battery but I am not sure if there is any cooling going on at these temps.

I would love to see an animation showing what the car is thinking and how the fluids and electrons flow through the car.

p.s. I had the AC running anytime the truck was on. I am not sure if that takes away from battery cooling.

 

[TaxmanHog]

p.s. I had the AC running anytime the truck was on. I am not sure if that takes away from battery cooling.

Cabin AC has no impact on battery cooling circuit and the battery exclusive compressor.

 

[invertedspear]

I still don't understand how my truck works. It has not seen AZ kinda temps but it has seen over 100F. I have never seen the fan running when the truck is off plugged in or not but I have seen the fan going bananas as soon as I turn it on. I have never seen the temp gauge move away from center in summer even when battery Temps go up by 40 degrees.

This is from a drive today during which the truck saw max of 102F ambient temp. Coolant inlet temp and Coolant temp did not change at all after I started the car and drove it very gently (power band never exceeded 20% and minimized regen) for two 10 mile segments but battery temp went up. I don’t understand with coolant at 59, why the battery temp is still going up? I got the max tow package for the extra cooling for the battery but I am not sure if there is any cooling going on at these temps.

I would love to see an animation showing what the car is thinking and how the fluids and electrons flow through the car.

p.s. I had the AC running anytime the truck was on. I am not sure if that takes away from battery cooling.

Yeah, don't know the decision tree the computer makes, but we know that these batteries LOVE 70-80F Maybe they don't actively cool till 100F as the energy spend cooling might not "pay back" in efficiency till after that point. Max Tow should mean cooling the battery won't steal "chill" from the cabin, nor vice versa.

From my experience, fan running when off is only in the most extreme heat. 115+F while the truck is in full sun. The fan kicks on when you have the AC on, that's why it goes full tilt when you start it up, it's trying to quickly chill the AC coolant for the cabin.

I'm sure the real secret is that there are many other sensors the computer uses to make decisions that we can't read, even on our fanciest of fancy OBD readers. Or maybe it's really a case we just have a hard time wrapping our heads around because there is no central computer, there's no central decision making, and even deciding to cool the battery might require 3 or 4 different steps along to way to all agree to sending coolant to it.

 

[Jim Lewis]

@Maxx. I've made similar observations with my truck. Two things to consider.

1. Maybe there is something wrong with the coolant temperature reading furnished by Car Scanner and the like. Or maybe it just reports the last temperature reading when the compressors were actually running?

2. I read somewhere that the ideal operating temperature of the Lightning battery from an efficiency standpoint is 90 to 100F.

To illustrate point #1, my truck has been sitting all day in a garage that is now 86F by several thermometers placed near the truck. I turn the truck on in full-accessory mode so nothing is running except a fan. The coolant temperature read by Car Scanner is 59F (15C). The battery temperature is 82.4F (28.0C), the engine temperatures 84.2F (29.0C). The garage has been slowly warming up from being 84F at 7 am (and the truck battery is the closest thing to my garage floor, which may be cooler than thermometers sitting 3 ft off the garage floor and exposed to radiant heat from the garage attic). How can my coolant temperature be 59F when no compressors have been running??? (and the truck has not been running for days - in the interest of full disclosure, it's been stuck in Inhibit Mode from a failed OTA update, but I've seen essentially the same as I describe running my truck in "full health"). So there is something funny about Car Scanner coolant temp readings or just the last reading when a compressor(s) were actually running is reported.

Relative to item #2, I presume the truck might run with its battery at 90F to 100F in the interest of getting maximum range from the kWh stored in the battery. Since most people are not driving all day and all night, the truck is spending most of the time with its battery at a cooler temperature, especially for the folks who live in northern climes during the fall, winter, and spring, even into early summer.

P.S. Whatever the real coolant temperature is, also consider that the battery is MASSIVE compared to the amount of coolant flowing through it. It's like the old high school algebra problem of a filled bathtub with the drain open (the coolant attempting to keep the temperature down) and the tap running, in danger of filling the tub to the limit (the heat generated by the battery). Is the bathtub going to fill up (overheat) or completely drain (become ice-cold). To keep the bathtub at the level you want, the coolant will have to be darn cold to counter the massive heating effect from the energy drawn. So the coolant temperature is always going to have to be way cooler than the battery cells themselves in an actively driven truck.

 

[Jim Lewis]

2. I read somewhere that the ideal operating temperature of the Lightning battery from an efficiency standpoint is 90 to 100F.

Turns out I read this via an AI summary of a post made on this forum:
https://www.f150lightningforum.com/...e-of-your-lightning-battery.10526/post-212948 (see 1st answer provided by @beatle).

Other web sources say the optimal kWh performance temperature for Li-ion batteries in general is ~68F (20C) to 77F (25C), although exact battery chemistry and design can affect the outcome.

Table: Driving Range Comparison in Different Temperatures

Temperature	Driving Range
Optimal (20°C/68°F)	250 miles
Hot (40°C/104°F)	200 miles
Cold (0°C/32°F)	180 miles

Source: https://ioncoretechnology.com/temperature-impact-on-battery-efficiency/

See also https://www.ufinebattery.com/blog/lithium-battery-temperature-range-everything-you-need-to-know/

P.S. One also has to consider the law of diminishing returns in what the actual optimal operating temperature for operating a Lightning battery should be. It's 102F outside. The peak efficiency might be 77F. But what's the effect on range and compressor longevity, if the compressor has to eat HVB charge to cool the battery to 77F to get the "maximum" power delivery? There must be a curve or a set of curves somewhere that shows, given air temperature, truck speed, wind speed, average acceleration/deceleration, to what temperature the compressor should attempt to cool the battery to maximize range. Loss of energy by running the compressor has to be balanced against the ideal capacity of the battery at a given temperature given no other demands/stressors.

 

[Maxx]

Source: https://ioncoretechnology.com/temperature-impact-on-battery-efficiency/

See also https://www.ufinebattery.com/blog/lithium-battery-temperature-range-everything-you-need-to-know/

First link says at 95F you are losing 10% capacity. Second link says 95F is just fine and within acceptable range. None say what these numbers mean in practical sense ( hitting a 105F 3 days a year vs 100 days a year vs keeping it at that temp for the whole year). They all seem to be recycling someone else's study without fully understanding it.

 

[02Reaper]

I've been checking out abrp and it gives battery temperature readings also. I can't run that and the carscanner app at the same time but the carscanner app seems to be missing something there in my opinion. I do know that battery cooling works or atleast it does and seems to do well when preconditioning for charging. What I don't get is if it can cool the battery down to optimal temperature during a route to a dc fast charger, why can't it stay ahead of the curve on hot days and keep the battery temp optimal any other time. I would think it would be better to draw even a minimal current to keep the coolant loop cool and get ahead of the game rather than saying oh things are too hot and have to try to work overtime to cool the battery back down after the fact.

 

[Zprime29]

The 59 degree coolant reading I don't think is applicable to the Lightning. When I looked through values on Torque, it's listed at Engine Coolant Temp and it never changes from 59. Makes me think it's bogus, some default value, and I ignore it.

I've been meaning to test out my A2Z adaptor, so I might see if I can trick the system by navigating to a nearby EA station but drive to the SC and see what the battery inlet temp does. My guess is that will indicate if the truck is actively cooling the battery.

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