Anyone getting Concerned that Ford is not in on EV for the long haul

[earlyadopt]

It made perfect sense for Ford to switcht the plant over to making Super Duty's. Ford's two Super Duty factors are running three shifts and they STILL cannot make as many as the dealers want to buy. And why spend a ton of money on a 3-row SUV with technology that's not profitable. I like the tact that they are updating the tech to be profitable within 12 months of a new model launch. Once that tech is available, it would be easy to launch a 3-row SUV if the market needed it.

I think what at is play now are a couple of factors. Shareholder want short term gains at the expense of long term viability. Their only investment is in money and not job security. Sell out at anytime with no commitment. Workers and families have a different reality. The second point I see is that N.A. car companies are use to building in obsolesces into their product so you want to upgrade. Not much differences in ICE for the last 30 yrs which in turn makes the resale value rather firm. Now with the EV market, 2 yrs can be a life time and a 2 yr old product can be really dated unless you do what Tesla does. They keep updating the old vehicles to have new features. This gives a stability to the resale value. If the battery is in decent shape or can be replaced with an newer one at a reasonable cost, the car holds value. The big three have not demonstrated this yet. This is where Ford can make a difference, continue to improve the software for the earlier MachE and Lightning's and the resale value will be there. single the willingness to have the ability to change battery tech in the future so the nagging question about battery life is a non issue. If the resale market is not good with an EV, then no one wants to get stuck with a vehicle that will not have value after 4 yrs.
Funny thing is that the wear and tare on an EV is far less than an ICE vehicle. So the value should be more, not less.

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[earlyadopt]

The market and manufactures are going to do what's best to stay alive and government needs to stay in their lane.

If governments do that, the end consumer may suffer, we saw that for the last 40 yrs. Car makers are lazy, always going after the low hanging fruit. They use to tell us what we wanted, then Japan came into the market. Now China has emerged as a leader. Software will dictate hardware, just as it has in the computer industry. As long as the car companies have to report to short term thinking shareholders, innovation and better tech will suffer in order to pay money to people that do not make the product. So far only one maker seems to poke the bear in this regard and that is Tesla. Low and behond, they make money selling and making EV. Hmm

 

[Joe.....Montana]

I have no concerns about Ford's long term commitment to EV's....so long as Farley is CEO. Ford delaying new releases is a reaction to market forces and engineering. The last 5 years investment in batteries has increased massively (not just car companies but also other "green" energy companies). The investment is starting to pay off and any company dealing with batteries is starting to see the tech jump forward.

I believe Farley is incredibly intelligent and has Ford positioned for the future. The future is coming slower in America than other countries because, largely, Americans like comfort and "what they know". It's why I have a buddy who consistently purchases Subarus despite having an Outback crap out on him at 50,000 miles and an Ascent consistently in the shop...and yet he's looking at purchasing a Crosstrek...despite me telling him how I have had nothing but positive experiences with my Toyotas (which is looking dated now).

Farley recognizes what a drain poor quality is on the company...the $800 million in warranty claims was primarily from 2021 and older vehicles, largely pre Farley. Now it will be interesting if the MY2022+ start to perform better...I'm banking on it does.

Absolutely love the truck, fits my families lifestyle perfectly, and as more people/families realize how easy an EV can fit into their lives they will be adopted. Like so much, it needs to hit that critical mass and then it will accelerate.

 

[earlyadopt]

I have no concerns about Ford's long term commitment to EV's....so long as Farley is CEO. Ford delaying new releases is a reaction to market forces and engineering. The last 5 years investment in batteries has increased massively (not just car companies but also other "green" energy companies). The investment is starting to pay off and any company dealing with batteries is starting to see the tech jump forward.

I believe Farley is incredibly intelligent and has Ford positioned for the future. The future is coming slower in America than other countries because, largely, Americans like comfort and "what they know". It's why I have a buddy who consistently purchases Subarus despite having an Outback crap out on him at 50,000 miles and an Ascent consistently in the shop...and yet he's looking at purchasing a Crosstrek...despite me telling him how I have had nothing but positive experiences with my Toyotas (which is looking dated now).

Farley recognizes what a drain poor quality is on the company...the $800 million in warranty claims was primarily from 2021 and older vehicles, largely pre Farley. Now it will be interesting if the MY2022+ start to perform better...I'm banking on it does.

Absolutely love the truck, fits my families lifestyle perfectly, and as more people/families realize how easy an EV can fit into their lives they will be adopted. Like so much, it needs to hit that critical mass and then it will accelerate.

Can't argue with that logic

 

[RocketGhost]

EVs are here to stay. I can't imagine the market for them shrinking anytime in the foreseeable long-term future. The unknown is what the growth rate will be.

I do believe the EV market will continue to grow for the foreseeable future. Over the next few years a lot more public DCFC stations will come online due to the federal subsidies. The plan is to have one at least every 50 miles along major highways, and the state plans I've seen all seem to be headed toward that goal. This will help increase EV adoption rates. The fact that EVs are getting more visibility will also move the market upward. People are getting more educated about them. Cost will also be coming down.

 

[Galactus55]

No

 

[Effonefiddy Lightning]

If governments do that, the end consumer may suffer, we saw that for the last 40 yrs. Car makers are lazy, always going after the low hanging fruit. They use to tell us what we wanted, then Japan came into the market. Now China has emerged as a leader. Software will dictate hardware, just as it has in the computer industry. As long as the car companies have to report to short term thinking shareholders, innovation and better tech will suffer in order to pay money to people that do not make the product. So far only one maker seems to poke the bear in this regard and that is Tesla. Low and behond, they make money selling and making EV. Hmm

Tesla has shareholders too which is regulated by the government, the difference is Tesla doesn't have union workers. China succeeds because their government unleashes the manufactures to produce and sell. Meanwhile our government tells our manufactures what they can and cannot do which often is what the public doesn't want. ( 70s Mustang 2, full sized trucks with 4 bangers, CAFE standard cars, etc.) Also, companies like the big three have too many bean counters.

 

[WilliamRobert]

Ah Oh Ford, there’s a shark in the water! “South of the border in Mexico, where BYD plans to build a new production facility in the coming months.”
https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a60803874/2024-byd-shark-truck-revealed/

 

[Cvh8601]

EVs are here to stay. I can't imagine the market for them shrinking anytime in the foreseeable long-term future. The unknown is what the growth rate will be.

It seems to me that every day, EV demand (as It grows) is as low as its ever going to be. Any early adopter 1st time EV owner now is probably not going to want to go back to trips to the gas station and oil changes for their next car after the EV experience. Demand has functionally nowhere to go but up for now.

Hopefully Tesla superchargers and this new Ionna company can catch up with DCFC infrastructure!

 

[Galactus55]

Ah Oh Ford, there’s a shark in the water! “South of the border in Mexico, where BYD plans to build a new production facility in the coming months.”
https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a60803874/2024-byd-shark-truck-revealed/

I own a 2013 Chevy Volt that car is still running strong. This little truck should do the same.
Only wish it had 120 mile electric range 62 is not enough.

 

[Grumpy2]

I am encouraged that the price is $55k or so. I was afraid it would be lower. Ford and others should be able to produce a similar product in that same range??

 

[DaBlue357]

I think the reality is that we are still a quite a number of years away from the moment that the EV truck has made the ICE truck obsolete. Batteries are what maybe 3 years out from a range and cost perspective and charging infrastructure maybe more.

What is that number? 400 mile range for $50K? Who knows but something in that range will make ICE a novelty.

Ford is doing the right thing by delaying from an investor standpoint but still delivering on the Lightning so maybe they are writing off debt and delivering the most reasonable EV truck. I think they are ahead of the game.

 

[Newton]

I think it is a Ford thing, not an EV thing. The technology is there, it is the marketing that is not what we want. The Denali EV edition 1 has 440 miles of range for $108K which is sort of in the range of the high end ICE F-150 Raptor, which doesn't have four wheel steering, fancy "transformer" cab or even air suspension (AFAIK).

The problem isn't EVs or battery cost any more (China makes good EVs with 400 mile range for much less cost than what we have now) - it is how to navigate the transition and extract as much money from American consumers as possible. Ford could make money with EVs at any price point, but the MBAs want to maximize their profit in a country where people actually can pay $100K for a vehicle. They will hold on to that as long as possible.

 

[Grease Lightning]

Ford did NOT get bailed out by the government in 2008. GM and Chrysler did. Ford survived on its own.

You are correct, but they did benefit from the recovery act and cash for clunkers government program, so indirectly they were the recipients of federal assistance.

The other two needed a direct cash infusion to stay alive.

 

[Grease Lightning]

I think the reality is that we are still a quite a number of years away from the moment that the EV truck has made the ICE truck obsolete.

We are really decades away from technology being there for true replacement in 99% of the use cases.

The sad reality is we need to stop thinking complete replacement at the moment. There is a very good reason Oregons 2035 car plan is EV and PHEV centric. The Ram Charger if it comes to light will be what we can expect for people that need that long range distance hauling, but can still be efficient and “operational” environmental friendly.

For true EV acceptance, I think we need a car with a 20-80% highway speed usable range of 200-240 miles and 150 kw chargers or better no more than 50 miles apart on every state and federal highway.

The desire and need to cram miles into the battery based on size can’t win the race and a robust charger network along the highway system will ease people’s minds and slowly break the “I need 600 miles of range” mentality.

Like this weekend I took my Lightning camping 120 miles a way. Needed to get something at WallyWorld and was like “well we might need to charge on the way home so let’s charge” and got 46kW in 20 minutes that gave me back most of the mileage I used to get there, and didn’t spend a second waiting to charge.

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