Charge Fault with two different at-home chargers (Tesla and Charge point)

[desiderata2001]

I have read everything I can find on the subject without resolution (including Reddit).

I have a 14-50 outlet that I use with the Ford mobile charger, and it works fine, no issues at all.

I traded my Tesla for the Lightning and already had a Gen 3 Wall charger for the Tesla. I never had an issue charging the Tesla (or other electric cars) but as soon as I hooked up my Lightning I got a charge fault. (Red ring only one time). I read that Ford can be a little fussier. I checked all wiring gauges, breakers, etc. and everything seems fine.

I sold my Tesla charger and got a Charge Point hardwired and hooked it up with 6-3 and a 60amp breaker (non GFCI). No issues with anything on the charger but still getting Charge Fault with Lightning. I have noticed one thing, when I first plug in and then go to the Ford Pass App and look at energy, it starts off with 1 kwh and goes up to 8kwh and then back down to 1kwh and then back up several times until it does the charge fault.

I have never had any issues charging anywhere (DC fast charging, etc.) but at my house. I am starting to suspect something is awry with my electrical panel but wanted to check here first. I have deleted my preferred charge times just in case.

I am not electrician, but I know enough to do simple installs.

Any guidance would be appreciated.

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[Grumpy2]

It is possible you are getting low voltage that the Lightning doesn't like. Perhaps when you were drawing 30 amps or so with the Ford mobile charger you were still maintaining about 240 volts, with the higher demand of 40-50 amps perhaps the voltage at the outlet has dropped enough for the truck to refuse it.
You can easily test 120 volt circuits inexpensively with the following device at a plug-in near the charger that may provide a clue. I am hoping if the 240 voltage drop is the issue, you will see a measurable drop on a 120 plug when the charger cycles on/off trying to charge the truck.

Low voltage to your 240 volt wall charger plug could be caused by several things, so before chasing that rabbit it would be good to gather more info.

https://www.amazon.com/Upgraded-Consumption-Electricity-Backlight-Protection/dp/B0D5QMK3BP/ref=sr_1_2?crid=2LDV2YTB2JBHF&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.zvT4Y30IhnlhuQG5JXIBTuRvyJSZLcOxxxCTcNuLfqQ5Pdinw0z02wpgsofLKW6GTHnnD74jbEvkLMQODdb8w44zOOK6aLs6Hlkf3A7zSTQBZmi8p6XfiR3TfN088-5KRO5_HAwLwBAauKcKE-v5b5s7OJUr5oaXH8HNmjOF16_jjyAlzuAEbzY6Uy3G7w1XDQTfsS7Ldk2cduLHZYdUrTu2iCKdN0zXrIOez4WDDmZHW9cXT3Y1I7TBz9KqJVW-M9AU33DuYjjlHBj30bYoukJF1Mmzz7OuNcHx3c3NgYE.YNMtQxlp5zWErUnLt_3NCixmwrXHDTIAKjx3WhdlQCY&dib_tag=se&keywords=watch+a+watt+plugin+device&qid=1727235991&sprefix=watch+a+watt+plugin+device,aps,217&sr=8-2

 

[Maquis]

It is possible you are getting low voltage that the Lightning doesn't like. Perhaps when you were drawing 30 amps or so with the Ford mobile charger you were still maintaining about 240 volts, with the higher demand of 40-50 amps perhaps the voltage at the outlet has dropped enough for the truck to refuse it.
You can easily test 120 volt circuits inexpensively with the following device at a plug-in near the charger that may provide a clue. I am hoping if the 240 voltage drop is the issue, you will see a measurable drop on a 120 plug when the charger cycles on/off trying to charge the truck.

Low voltage to your 240 volt wall charger plug could be caused by several things, so before chasing that rabbit it would be good to gather more info.

https://www.amazon.com/Upgraded-Consumption-Electricity-Backlight-Protection/dp/B0D5QMK3BP/ref=sr_1_2?crid=2LDV2YTB2JBHF&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.zvT4Y30IhnlhuQG5JXIBTuRvyJSZLcOxxxCTcNuLfqQ5Pdinw0z02wpgsofLKW6GTHnnD74jbEvkLMQODdb8w44zOOK6aLs6Hlkf3A7zSTQBZmi8p6XfiR3TfN088-5KRO5_HAwLwBAauKcKE-v5b5s7OJUr5oaXH8HNmjOF16_jjyAlzuAEbzY6Uy3G7w1XDQTfsS7Ldk2cduLHZYdUrTu2iCKdN0zXrIOez4WDDmZHW9cXT3Y1I7TBz9KqJVW-M9AU33DuYjjlHBj30bYoukJF1Mmzz7OuNcHx3c3NgYE.YNMtQxlp5zWErUnLt_3NCixmwrXHDTIAKjx3WhdlQCY&dib_tag=se&keywords=watch+a+watt+plugin+device&qid=1727235991&sprefix=watch+a+watt+plugin+device,aps,217&sr=8-2

Low voltage cannot cause problems. You can supply 120V to a 240V EVSE and it will charge. There is a problem with the charger in his truck.

 

[Grumpy2]

You can supply 120V to a 240V EVSE and it will charge.

What led me down that path was the OP's experience with the Truck taking juice from a Ford mobile charger.

 

[kcoates2]

It could be the truck. I could DCFC, but level 2 charging would always fault. Here is the thread of my experience and what module was replaced on the truck. https://www.f150lightningforum.com/...rging-with-autel-50a-fix-replace-sobdm.21241/

I hope this helps.

 

[desiderata2001]

It could be the truck. I could DCFC, but level 2 charging would always fault. Here is the thread of my experience and what module was replaced on the truck. https://www.f150lightningforum.com/...rging-with-autel-50a-fix-replace-sobdm.21241/

I hope this helps.

I read your post before, but I have used other level 2 chargers successfully and that's why I was thinking it was something with my charger (or electrical panel), but I will call service today and see what codes they are seeing.

 

[desiderata2001]

I read your post before, but I have used other level 2 chargers successfully and that's why I was thinking it was something with my charger (or electrical panel), but I will call service today and see what codes they are seeing.

I am also going to throw a meter on it tonight just to see what I am getting.

 

[Adventureboy]

Hoping you aren't running the 14-50 plug on a 60amp breaker..... ;-)

I've had charge issues on my 2023. I've had to do a 12v reset to reset the onboard charger a few times (and it worked). I would get the red ring of death on all EVSEs until I did the reset. I didn't however test it on the Ford Mobile Charger but it wouldn't work on the Ford charger at the dealer either. Ford eventually had to replace the onboard charger since the 12v reset wouldn't work anymore.

I'd try the 12v reset first. Then if it continues, book it in at the dealer.

 

[desiderata2001]

Hoping you aren't running the 14-50 plug on a 60amp breaker..... ;-)

I've had charge issues on my 2023. I've had to do a 12v reset to reset the onboard charger a few times (and it worked). I would get the red ring of death on all EVSEs until I did the reset. I didn't however test it on the Ford Mobile Charger but it wouldn't work on the Ford charger at the dealer either. Ford eventually had to replace the onboard charger since the 12v reset wouldn't work anymore.

I'd try the 12v reset first. Then if it continues, book it in at the dealer.

No, the 14-50 is on a 50 amp. I will give the reset a try. Thank you.

 

[chl]

No, the 14-50 is on a 50 amp. I will give the reset a try. Thank you.

1) The 14-50 outlet should be derated and on a 40A breaker (80% rule for continuous loads).

2) The mobile charger will draw about 30A-32A and work fine on the 14-50 outlet on a 40A breaker (I have one in my garage I used before getting a FCSP).

3) Your truck/EVSE is apparently trying to charge first pulling 1kW then 8kW (240V x 33A) and encounters a problem using a Charge Point EVSE hard wired on a 60A breaker on #6-3 wire.

The handshaking between the truck and the EVSE seems to be saying the EVSE and the truck are expecting to be able to provide 48A (11.5kW) but the EVSE is saying it can't handle that ampacity (is it set to provide 48A?) so it stops at 33A (8kW) apparently unable to function even at that level. The mobile charger does not go above 32A so would not encounter that issue.

What could be the issue?

The main culprit is usually temperature/excessive heat on the conductor/terminals.
That can be either because the wire is undersized (I assume you used the correct wire size and type the EVSE specified) OR because the wire conductors are not torqued down at the EVSE terminals correctly (too loose).

There have been some reports on the forums of some FCSP that faulted out because the terminals were not torqued enough, so I suspect that could be your problem.

If so the remedy is to torque down the terminals to the specified pressure. To do that you need a torque driver.

Remember to be sure the power is off BEFORE trying to torque down the terninals!!!
Death or serious injury may result if done while powered!!!

If that doesn't solve the issue, possibly the Lightning charge on-board circuitry is as fault.

Good luck.

 

[GoodSam]

1) The 14-50 outlet should be derated and on a 40A breaker (80% rule for continuous loads).

I think this statement is incorrect. The 14-50 should be on a 50A circuit breaker, with properly sized wiring. But 40A is the maximum continuous load that can be put on a 50A circuit breaker (80%).
On a 50A circuit breaker, one might be reasonably worried that the the 30A/32A rated Ford Mobile Electric Vehicle Service Equipment (EVSE) will not be protected, but it must protect itself because the instructions say it is OK.

 

[chl]

I think this statement is incorrect. The 14-50 should be on a 50A circuit breaker, with properly sized wiring. But 40A is the maximum continuous load that can be put on a 50A circuit breaker (80%).
On a 50A circuit breaker, one might be reasonably worried that the the 30A/32A rated Ford Mobile Electric Vehicle Service Equipment (EVSE) will not be protected, but it must protect itself because the instructions say it is OK.

Yes and no.

The issue is obviously what the circuits will handle for 3 or more hours.

I believe the OP is plugging in a Ford mobile power cord which is rated for 30A-32A current for over 3 hours - so I think it should be on a 40A breaker not a 50A.

Yes your 50A circuit (14-50R, breaker and wire) will handle 40A a continuous load. But what about the MPC itself?

I think we want the breaker open if the MPC draws more current than it can safely handle due to some internal malfunction. Assuming the MPC uses wire suitable for a continuous load of 30A-32A, i.e., it is sized for 40A (125% of 32A). But what happens if the MPC draws 49A?

The 50A breaker wouldn't open and the MPC wiring may eventually melt down.

I think the safest thing to do is put a breaker on an EVSE that is sized based on 125% of it's load current capacity.

I know the MPC brochure "recommends" putting the 14-50R outlet on a 50A GFCI breaker.
(The 14-50R outlet is used for both 40A and 50A circuits because there is no 14-40R so it's OK.)

But a 40A breaker will suffice, is cheaper than a 50A breaker, and is perhaps safer.
Also you could use #8 Cu wire for the 40A circuit. (Although larger sized wire would have a smaller voltage drop and might be better for a long run for that reason.)

NOTE: There have been plenty of reports of the Ford MPC's over-heating and even melting down, literally, on this forum and others. Things electrical can melt down due to excess current draw that their internal circuitry can't handle.

Why the Ford MPCs seem to have this melt-down issue is the question. (Also sold as the Webasto Go on Amazon - many reports of melt-downs there too.) The inside of one that failed is below, cut open by the owner to see what might have failed.

Did the current regulating circuitry inside the MPC fail over time and at some point draw more than the continuous load rating of 40A (30A-32A x 125%) causing over-heating? That's a possibility.

Or maybe the MPC just can't really handle a 30A-32A continuous loads for more than a limited number of duty cycles due to poor design?

I originally had a 2012 Nissan Leaf on a GE Watt Station EVSE wired on #8 Cu and a 40A breaker plugged in to a 6-50R outlet in my garage per the manufacturer's specs. It was a max 32A EVSE.
Never popped the breaker, never had a melt-down or other issue.

When I got the Lightning I initially plugged the MPC in to that circuit (heavy duty adapter on the 14-50p). Works fine, but I did not intend it to be my everyday charging source, just a temporary one.

I bought a FCSP on eBay for $600, and it was installed with the capacity to handle the 80A continuous load it is rated for, no more, no less, that is, it is on a 100A breaker and wiring - hard wired.

I did not put the FCSP on a 125A, 150A, 175A or 200A etc. breaker and wiring for several reasons:

1) the FCSP does not require a higher than 100A (80A continuous load) circuit,
2) it would have been more expensive and
3) it might not be safe if the FCSP has an internal malfuntion and drew over 100A.

So that's why I suggested derating the plug-in circuit for the Ford MPC to 40A, for what it is worth.

 

[desiderata2001]

1) The 14-50 outlet should be derated and on a 40A breaker (80% rule for continuous loads).

2) The mobile charger will draw about 30A-32A and work fine on the 14-50 outlet on a 40A breaker (I have one in my garage I used before getting a FCSP).

3) Your truck/EVSE is apparently trying to charge first pulling 1kW then 8kW (240V x 33A) and encounters a problem using a Charge Point EVSE hard wired on a 60A breaker on #6-3 wire.

The handshaking between the truck and the EVSE seems to be saying the EVSE and the truck are expecting to be able to provide 48A (11.5kW) but the EVSE is saying it can't handle that ampacity (is it set to provide 48A?) so it stops at 33A (8kW) apparently unable to function even at that level. The mobile charger does not go above 32A so would not encounter that issue.

What could be the issue?

The main culprit is usually temperature/excessive heat on the conductor/terminals.
That can be either because the wire is undersized (I assume you used the correct wire size and type the EVSE specified) OR because the wire conductors are not torqued down at the EVSE terminals correctly (too loose).

There have been some reports on the forums of some FCSP that faulted out because the terminals were not torqued enough, so I suspect that could be your problem.

If so the remedy is to torque down the terminals to the specified pressure. To do that you need a torque driver.

Remember to be sure the power is off BEFORE trying to torque down the terninals!!!
Death or serious injury may result if done while powered!!!

If that doesn't solve the issue, possibly the Lightning charge on-board circuitry is as fault.

Good luck.

Well, you nailed it, the “electrician” that I hired didn’t torque the wires down and that was the culprit. I ordered a torque driver off of Amazon and torqued it to the specs on the breaker. It is now charging without issue! Although I did lower the amperage on the charger to 32 Amps as well. I am charging at 7.2kw. Thank you to everyone for their suggestions, you guys fixed my issue!

 

[flyct]

Yes and no.

The issue is obviously what the circuits will handle for 3 or more hours.

I believe the OP is plugging in a Ford mobile power cord which is rated for 30A-32A current for over 3 hours - so I think it should be on a 40A breaker not a 50A.

Yes your 50A circuit (14-50R, breaker and wire) will handle 40A a continuous load. But what about the MPC itself?

I think we want the breaker open if the MPC draws more current than it can safely handle due to some internal malfunction. Assuming the MPC uses wire suitable for a continuous load of 30A-32A, i.e., it is sized for 40A (125% of 32A). But what happens if the MPC draws 49A?

The 50A breaker wouldn't open and the MPC wiring may eventually melt down.

I think the safest thing to do is put a breaker on an EVSE that is sized based on 125% of it's load current capacity.

I know the MPC brochure "recommends" putting the 14-50R outlet on a 50A GFCI breaker.
(The 14-50R outlet is used for both 40A and 50A circuits because there is no 14-40R so it's OK.)

But a 40A breaker will suffice, is cheaper than a 50A breaker, and is perhaps safer.
Also you could use #8 Cu wire for the 40A circuit. (Although larger sized wire would have a smaller voltage drop and might be better for a long run for that reason.)

NOTE: There have been plenty of reports of the Ford MPC's over-heating and even melting down, literally, on this forum and others. Things electrical can melt down due to excess current draw that their internal circuitry can't handle.

Why the Ford MPCs seem to have this melt-down issue is the question. (Also sold as the Webasto Go on Amazon - many reports of melt-downs there too.) The inside of one that failed is below, cut open by the owner to see what might have failed.

Did the current regulating circuitry inside the MPC fail over time and at some point draw more than the continuous load rating of 40A (30A-32A x 125%) causing over-heating? That's a possibility.

Or maybe the MPC just can't really handle a 30A-32A continuous loads for more than a limited number of duty cycles due to poor design?

I originally had a 2012 Nissan Leaf on a GE Watt Station EVSE wired on #8 Cu and a 40A breaker plugged in to a 6-50R outlet in my garage per the manufacturer's specs. It was a max 32A EVSE.
Never popped the breaker, never had a melt-down or other issue.

When I got the Lightning I initially plugged the MPC in to that circuit (heavy duty adapter on the 14-50p). Works fine, but I did not intend it to be my everyday charging source, just a temporary one.

I bought a FCSP on eBay for $600, and it was installed with the capacity to handle the 80A continuous load it is rated for, no more, no less, that is, it is on a 100A breaker and wiring - hard wired.

I did not put the FCSP on a 125A, 150A, 175A or 200A etc. breaker and wiring for several reasons:

1) the FCSP does not require a higher than 100A (80A continuous load) circuit,
2) it would have been more expensive and
3) it might not be safe if the FCSP has an internal malfuntion and drew over 100A.

So that's why I suggested derating the plug-in circuit for the Ford MPC to 40A, for what it is worth.

Lots of information above.

Some facts:

Wire type used can make a difference as to what size you need for different ampacities.

For max 40 amps
#8 AWG NM-B (Romex®) is ONLY rated for up to 40 amps.

For 50 amp:
#8 AWG THHN in conduit is legally rated for up to 50 amps.
#6 AWG NM-B (Romex®) is rated for up to 55 amps.
8-8-8 SEU Copper Service Entrance cable up to 50 amps (if you can't or don't want to run wires in conduit)

For 60 Amps typically hard wired EVSEs
#6 AWG THHN in conduit is legally rated for up to 65amps
4/3 W/GND NM-B (Romex®) is rated for up to 70 amps.
6-6-8 SEU Copper Service Entrance cable up to 65 amps (if you can't or don't want to run wired in conduit) This is what my electrician wired my 60 amp Tesla Wall Connector with that supplies 48 amps to the to cars and/or trucks.

Wire Ampacity Charts for NM-B/Romex® and THHN
https://www.cerrowire.com/products/resources/tables-calculators/ampacity-charts/

Service Entrance Cable Ampacity chart:
http://www.cmewire.com/catalog/sec01-BWX/BWX-02-SEU-SER-AMP.pdf


Since there is no 40 amp 240 outlet so the NEC code permits you to use a NEMA 14-50R protected and wired as a 40 amp outlet. The outlet would be best to be labeled as 40 amps at the outlet to eliminate confusion. This is done all the time on most electric ranges.

A Ford MPC or any other EVSE that draws 30-32 amps plugged into a NEMA 14-50R can be protected with either a 50 amp GFCI or 40 amp GFCI breaker. These breakers cost over $100 each.

There is nothing wrong with plugging in a Ford MPC into a 14-50R protected with a 50 amp GFCI breaker with properly sized wire. Think about it, we all plug table lamps that draw less than one amp into 15 amp protected outlets all the time.

Ir you wire a 14-50R with 50 amp wire and a 50 amp breaker you will be all set if you later decide to use plugged in EVSE like an Emporia or Grizzl-E that can be plugged into a 14-50R amp outlet.

 

[desiderata2001]

This turned into a great thread with a lot of good information, hopefully it will help some other folks in the future. Love my Lightning!

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