Class Action Lawsuit - Home Integration System

[darknla]

Sorry to butt in here, but I'm trying to learn something from the discussion. Does your electrician have a wiring diagram for your system? That might help you if someday he's no longer available to troubleshoot it. I'm pretty ignorant about electronics, but in the wiring diagram @tearitupsports furnished as an example earlier in the thread: https://www.f150lightningforum.com/...uit-home-integration-system.21562/post-429299, there seem to be two separate neutrals. A wiring diagram would help us folks in the bleachers here understand how your system is wired. In my ignorance, I'm assuming your system hooks in between the meter and the main panel, and the cutoff during an outage is between where it hooks in and the meter. If there does turn out to be a wiring error, the original wire diagram vs. the fixed-up one would be an informative lesson to anyone else who comes along and wants to emulate what you're trying to do.

Don't worry about butting in, the more the eye on it the better.

My electrician did a quick sketch for me right now. He also said neutral is non directional like a ground wire.

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[darknla]

Again you have a wierd setup and I could be wrong. That being said the symptoms you are seeing were the same as mine when I have the breaker off between the whb and panelboard. Might just double check that the phases are correct as well. I wouldn’t think it should matter much but I don’t know everything the WHB is doing/checking.

this what my electrician said " Yes line one and two are the same throughout. We had the main turned on for the second test. That's what makes me think it's a setting in the inverter. Power is present at the inverter. It just won't seem to send it. It just seems like a communication issue. "

 

[tearitupsports]

this what my electrician said " Yes line one and two are the same throughout. We had the main turned on for the second test. That's what makes me think it's a setting in the inverter. Power is present at the inverter. It just won't seem to send it. It just seems like a communication issue. "

So I have been thinking about your issue. Because your setup is different you are possibly having a load issue and are going to have a charger issue as well.
I think the wiring seems correct.
the big issue is that if you are successful in turning on your main panel it is going to turn on your charge station pro and immediately shut back down. To run tests you will need to turn off the breaker going to the charge station pro.
second I am wondering if the delta inverter is detecting too much load since it is your whole house. Have you tried shutting off some load breaker for AC and other items prior to starting up. If it were me I would leave only one breaker on running some lights or something. If you had pics of the other device wiring I could see if you might have comm issues. It is wierd all the components act fine individually but don’t work together.

 

[darknla]

So I have been thinking about your issue. Because your setup is different you are possibly having a load issue and are going to have a charger issue as well.
I think the wiring seems correct.
the big issue is that if you are successful in turning on your main panel it is going to turn on your charge station pro and immediately shut back down. To run tests you will need to turn off the breaker going to the charge station pro.
second I am wondering if the delta inverter is detecting too much load since it is your whole house. Have you tried shutting off some load breaker for AC and other items prior to starting up. If it were me I would leave only one breaker on running some lights or something. If you had pics of the other device wiring I could see if you might have comm issues. It is wierd all the components act fine individually but don’t work together.

Those are some good thoughts that I will try to work on tomorrow or later in the week. Its hard to turn off power when my wife and I work from home. Thanks for giving me those Ideas!

 

[Jim Lewis]

@darknla, have you been through all the steps in the Delta BDI commissioning as described on Sunrun's field website? Other than a wiring/communication problem or not cutting power at the right point to test relative to the grid and Acrel meter, maybe there's a missing commissioning step:
(Ford) Delta BDI Commissioning SOP - INS-SOP-0170 - Google Slides

The consumption meter should actually turn off, when the power goes out.

I had a dumb, ignorant question about this statement and the position of the Acrel meter in the wiring. If you've cut off all grid power to your main panel and the outage shuts off the Acrel meter (consumption meter), how does the system in such a setup know grid power has been restored? Doesn't current have to be flowing through the lines from the grid to detect restored grid power? In my situation, the backup is of my main subpanel for all electric lighting and wall outlets. The main panel is upstream and outside of the backup circuitry. I perhaps have wrongly assumed that grid power restoration is detected by the Acrel meter from current flowing to the FCSP and to other major appliances that are all supported by the main panel (my Acrel meter is in a J-box outside of the WHB). Is there enough capacitance or current consumed within the WHB to allow the Acrel meter to detect power restoration without current going elsewhere initially because in darknla's instance the connection to the main panel would not yet be restored? And how can the Acrel meter be off and then detect grid power restoration? (Last paragraph in post is probably answer to these questions).

BTW, here's Sunrun's official wiring diagram for a setup with the Acrel meter still within the WHB and a backup critical loads panel. Perhaps you've already checked your various connections against such a diagram, allowing for your different configuration.
Ford Home Integration System Installation and Wiring - INS-SOP-0226 - Google Slides

Update: Here's a screen capture of the Sunrun diagram from the just previous link (click to expand).

An Internet search seems to say that the Acrel meter always needs a source of power, and it can't derive power from the CTs by induction or anything like that.

So, here's a suggestion based on the above diagram. On the inverter in the upper right, the input to the subpanel (which could be darknla's main panel) should really be labeled AC IN/OUT. The inverter is powered through the subpanel (main panel) when grid power is on. Since it's a bidirectional inverter (BDI), when grid power is out, DC power from the Dark Start battery (or the truck via the DC EV circuit when BPT kicks in) flows back through what is now AC OUT to the WHB to power the Microgrid Interconnect device and disconnect the grid circuit (and since the Acrel meter in this configuration is within the WHB, it could get its power to read grid power status that way). What I still don't understand is the other option, which is to put the Acrel meter in a J-box (required if the WHB is too far from the main panel grid input), and where the Acrel meter gets its monitoring power from when the grid is out, and the meter is not located in the WHB.

Further research seems to show that the Acrel meter is just for monitoring and measuring power usage and that the WHB-200 has other means for determining whether there is voltage and current in the AC grid lines. My ignorance is amazing! I wish I could find a document that explains the operation of the Home Integration System in fine detail!

 

[Steely]

What ever happened with this original topic. After the thread got hijacked with installation details nothing else came of it. OP are you proceeding or did your system just start working? I still can't get anywhere with Ford or Sunrun, today I was told I have all the updates but then got the same old line of it is a 'known issue' which is really starting to piss me off since no one else seems to be having the same issue i have described and some people with all the updates seem to actually have a functional system!

I'm at my wits end here.

 

[Wattsgas]

What ever happened with this original topic. After the thread got hijacked with installation details nothing else came of it. OP are you proceeding or did your system just start working? I still can't get anywhere with Ford or Sunrun, today I was told I have all the updates but then got the same old line of it is a 'known issue' which is really starting to piss me off since no one else seems to be having the same issue i have described and some people with all the updates seem to actually have a functional system!

I'm at my wits end here.

I too feel your pain and am also at my wits end. It is like there is a NDA for folks that get the system fixed. I'm guessing the OP has given up.

 

[tearitupsports]

What ever happened with this original topic. After the thread got hijacked with installation details nothing else came of it. OP are you proceeding or did your system just start working? I still can't get anywhere with Ford or Sunrun, today I was told I have all the updates but then got the same old line of it is a 'known issue' which is really starting to piss me off since no one else seems to be having the same issue i have described and some people with all the updates seem to actually have a functional system!

I'm at my wits end here.

I think there are many systems working and I am fairly confident all systems are capable of working if the truck is updated past 6.14. I would be glad to remotely help get it working. I was able to get another TX based system working when I visited them in person a couple weeks ago.

 

[JackieDemarais]

I think there are many systems working and I am fairly confident all systems are capable of working if the truck is updated past 6.14. I would be glad to remotely help get it working. I was able to get another TX based system working when I visited them in person a couple weeks ago.

Yes. I am that person whose system he got going after 2 years of feuding with both Ford and SunRun to get it working like they told me it would. Russell is a godsend! Thank you so much!!

 

[Wattsgas]

Was there a particular key to getting the system working. Mine stopped working with 6.14. I would love to have a god send help me. My system is stuck at preparing to provide power.

 

[Steely]

I think there are many systems working and I am fairly confident all systems are capable of working if the truck is updated past 6.14. I would be glad to remotely help get it working. I was able to get another TX based system working when I visited them in person a couple weeks ago.

Any info you can provide would be appreciated since Ford BEV team support is very hands off. I'm not sure what we can do though, the system used to work, now it doesn't. Since no one will answer any questions, I'm unable to determine if its a hardware failure or a software problem. Ford BEV support says my truck has all the updates but still says i need to wait for more software fixes.

My other thread details a bit more of the symptoms of my fault, i have a few videos from power cut to failure documenting it. Obviously my hope that the TSB would fix it didn't come to pass.

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