Ford 80A Charge Station Pro

[Bandit216]

The question remains, though, what's the significance of giving us the maximum output as 10.5kW (SR) and 17.6kW (ER) if both are limited to 9.6kW from the plugs or to the house?

Why can our cars go 120 mph when the speed limit is 70mph?

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[Brian Head Yankee]

You could be right that the Sunrun box is actually an inverter and it's limited to 9.6kW.

The question remains, though, what's the significance of giving us the maximum output as 10.5kW (SR) and 17.6kW (ER) if both are limited to 9.6kW from the plugs or to the house?

You are confusing charger output (to charge the pack) with the truck receptacle(s) output ? One has nothin to do with the other.

 

[beatle]

You are confusing charger output (to charge the pack) with the truck receptacle(s) output ? One has nothin to do with the other.

Maybe they're referring to charging efficiency? AC/DC converters are not 100% efficient. If the truck takes 19.2kw in via AC from the station and outputs 17.6kw DC to the battery, that's 91.6% efficient which is pretty good IME. I get about 87% charging efficiency on average at home with a few outliers that go above 90%.

For powering your home, I would think Ford would have the truck output DC to the station which then inverts it to AC for your home via the external inverter. This would negate the need to outfit each truck with a pricey 9.6kw inverter, and instead offload it to a potentially less expensive one that is specific to powering a home on a case by case basis.

That said, maybe I'm wrong and the truck already has a 9.6kw inverter that services all of the receptacles onboard...

 

[Brian Head Yankee]

Well it HAS to have an inverter on board to service all the receptacles. We will find out soon enough how the power is fed to the home during an outage.

 

[Blainestang]

You are confusing charger output (to charge the pack) with the truck receptacle(s) output ? One has nothin to do with the other.

Yeah, perhaps that's what they're saying. It's output from the charger, but still INTO the truck's pack.

Interesting because I've never seen an EV company specify that number before that basically spells out charger efficiency.

 

[shikataganai]

I could be wrong, but I would imagine that both batteries would allow the same 9.6 kW max rate.

I think its the attached Sunrun box (Inverter) that is doing the heavy lifting. The CCS connector allows for DC to come straight from the battery pack out which will bypass the onboard charger.

I have not seen anything that indicates other than a 9.6 kW rate for the Intelligent Backup Power. This seems to be entirely independent of the 2.4 vs 9.6 kW options for Pro Power Onboard, in particular.

This makes sense because as per the quote and my original post's linked article the truck to house connection is via the CCS pins, DC. This indeed implies that the extra box is an inverter.

Neither battery has a problem kicking out 9.6 kW DC to the motors while driving as evidenced by the 426/563 hp, and neither has a problem with accepting 150 kW DC while CCS charging… so 9.6 kW out DC via those same CCS pins is not a stretch at all.

 

[sotek2345]

I have not seen anything that indicates other than a 9.6 kW rate for the Intelligent Backup Power. This seems to be entirely independent of the 2.4 vs 9.6 kW options for Pro Power Onboard, in particular.

This makes sense because as per the quote and my original post's linked article the truck to house connection is via the CCS pins, DC. This indeed implies that the extra box is an inverter.

Neither battery has a problem kicking out 9.6 kW DC to the motors while driving as evidenced by the 426/563 hp, and neither has a problem with accepting 150 kW DC while CCS charging… so 9.6 kW out DC via those same CCS pins is not a stretch at all.

Hmmm. that is interesting and I hope you are right. I am very very interested in the home backup power, but really have no use for the 240V plug in the truck, so if I can get the full home backup solution and not have to pay for the higher level Pro-power onboard that would be money in my pocket!

 

[shikataganai]

Hmmm. that is interesting and I hope you are right. I am very very interested in the home backup power, but really have no use for the 240V plug in the truck, so if I can get the full home backup solution and not have to pay for the higher level Pro-power onboard that would be money in my pocket!

The good news is that the jump to 9.6 kW Pro Power Onboard should be pretty cheap if the PowerBoost's pricing structure is any indication ($750).

 

[Slappy McGee]

Has anyone seen any indications whether Ford's V2G follows some sort of CCS standard? For example could the truck do V2G on another charger or is the Ford system the only one that's compatible?

 

[shikataganai]

Has anyone seen any indications whether Ford's V2G follows some sort of CCS standard? For example could the truck do V2G on another charger or is the Ford system the only one that's compatible?

They should be following ISO 15118-20, in theory...

https://v2g-clarity.com/blog/new-features-and-timeline-for-iso15118-20/#bpt

But from what I've read one will definitely need a special EVSE with CCS plug and its own inverter/home wiring integration. Won't be able to just plug in to J1772 on a regular EVSE and do vehicle to home (or later vehicle to grid).

 

[shikataganai]

one will definitely need a special EVSE with CCS plug and its own inverter/home wiring integration

Here are two I quickly found that potentially could work in a standards-compliant world:

VW DC Wallbox. Oddly this one does 22 kW DC input to the car via CCS as well. Bi-directional explicitly. Not sure how one would supply power to it: 240V AC input then using its own transformer presumably.

Wallbox Quasar. Standard 7.2 kW AC charger via the J1772 pins. CCS or CHAdeMO connectors for the bidirectional part (so would the CHAdeMO version have both J1772 and CHAdeMO heads connected simultaneously?!).

 

[shikataganai]

This is probably of interest as well:

https://reneweconomy.com.au/what-do...idirectional-ccs-electric-car-charging-17337/

 

[ChasingCoral]

Here's my question:

I see that the infographic says "9.6kW output" for home backup, but then what is the importance of the row here that says "Onboard Charger Power (Input/Output)" that gives the SR as 11.3kW/10.5kW and the ER as 19.2kW/17.6kW?

BEVs have a charger built in (onboard). The unit you plug into your outlet or mount on your wall is an EVSE (Electric Vehicle Supply Equipment). The Onboard Charger Power (Input/Output) is speaking to the charger built into the vehicle. In the case of the Lightning, the charger in the vehicle can accept input power up to 11.3kW (SR) or 19.2kW (ER). That onboard charger will then charge your battery at 10.5kW (SR) or 17.6kW (ER). This has nothing to do with the power the vehicle can provide to your home as the ProPower system is limited to 9.6kW.

 

[Sdctcher]

I plan on ordering a Lightning with the bigger battery pack. I wonder how many people with a standard 200 amp service could withstand adding another 240v/80 amp breaker. I am looking ahead and my electrician says I need to add another 100A panel next to my meter (and next to my Generac 22kW propane backup) where I could charge the truck and connect to 24v/80A.

 

[cwstnsko]

I wonder if the bigger box that we are assuming has an inverter, also has the Automatic Transfer Switch and the Neutral forming transformer that will be needed for the system to detect a power outage, isolate from the grid and form a micro-grid feeding the house? I also wonder if the system will produce a good enough grid that any on-site grid-tied solar system would be able to come online and enable solar production? Will the solar production then be able to send excess generation back to the truck to re-charge the battery?
This may sound complex when you describe all of the portions specifically, but all of those things need to happen for this system to work the way that most people are assuming it will.

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