Ideas for soft encouragement of 85% charge.

[RickKeen]

Charge networks could encourage charging only to 85% with a couple of simple software changes.
A: When charge hits 85%, stop charging. Display a message explaining how charging over 85% wastes everyone's time. Ask them to let others have a turn if people are waiting.

B: If people are waiting (maybe detect this by how many other chargers at same site are also in use), refuse to go over 85% until the person disconnects and moves out of the way for at least 10 minutes..

C: If somebody has to go over 85% to reach their next stop, they can reconnect again after 10 minutes and be permitted to go from 85 to 100.

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[invertedspear]

Terrible if you actually need 90%, like seriously, if the line is 5 or 10 cars deep, you make someone jump through that hoop? Nah, they're just going to block the space they're in for 10 mins to wait for the timeout, thus further wasting everyone's time. And this won't change the behavior of people who just park there cause they have free charging.

If you really want to do this, make it annoying, but not a cutoff. At 85% flash a message: "Charger will shut off in 5 min, press this button to add 5 minutes to the shutdown" and display the count down. They can only press the button to add 5 mins when the timer is less than 5 minutes. As soon as it does shut off, hit them with the idle fees.

Make it annoying, and close the loopholes that would be used to punish people in line, but don't actually make it impossible or punitive for people that need a few more % to make it home.

 

[Grease Lightning]

Terrible if you actually need 90%, like seriously, if the line is 5 or 10 cars deep, you make someone jump through that hoop? Nah, they're just going to block the space they're in for 10 mins to wait for the timeout, thus further wasting everyone's time. And this won't change the behavior of people who just park there cause they have free charging.

If you really want to do this, make it annoying, but not a cutoff. At 85% flash a message: "Charger will shut off in 5 min, press this button to add 5 minutes to the shutdown" and display the count down. They can only press the button to add 5 mins when the timer is less than 5 minutes. As soon as it does shut off, hit them with the idle fees.

Make it annoying, and close the loopholes that would be used to punish people in line, but don't actually make it impossible or punitive for people that need a few more % to make it home.

I like this idea. And really maybe only show the sign when the stations are say 75% full or 100% full, cause if it is empty it doesn’t matter.

I appreciate this over the “hardline” approach as there are practically reasons some need to make it to 90-100%.

 

[Scorpio3d]

Perhaps the simplest solution is to have more EV chargers and eliminate charging deserts!
I know this is not the least costly solution, but the DCFC owners/operators have the data to tell them if they need to add more charging positions at a particular location due to high usage. But then again they are trying to make as much as possible with the smallest investment possible as they are for profit companies. User wait time is probably low on the list of priorities for most of them! Not to mention the problems many of them seem to have with up time of their existing DCFCs and the number that have slow 50kWh speeds.

Many of the places I have DCFC’d other than Tesla (I admit that other than my 1500 mile trip home when I purchased my Lightning I haven’t used any since having the FCSP installed) have only had a 1-4 boxes(not sure what to call them other than that) and one to two cables from each box sometimes only one of them Is CCS and the other one is Chademo or whatever the hell it is. I have only been to three Tesla superchargers that had the magic dock and they had at least eight positions. One of the videos I saw posted on this forum there was one supercharger location that had 50 something I think.

We are still in the early adopter stage as far as over the road charging goes, and hopefully competition will not only increase the number of locations, but make it less expensive over time…. well, at least more locations! More locations are coming online. I won’t say every day but every month maybe-LOL

 

[GunRack]

If the truck should just showed the real time charging rate on the dash like every other EV, people would be more educated and/or motivated to leave when it tapers off. If they still want to camp out getting 8kWh, then that's their choice. It sucks waiting on those 100%ers but I don't know their situation. Tesla defaults to 80% at peak times already, but you can easily override it. That seems to work alright.

More Level 3 chargers is the only solution to lines. Tesla's load balancing across charger groups seems like the best solution to maximize resources use right now. Though that does mean everyone is slower than max rate if the group is full.

 

[Firn]

Charging over 80% is situation dependent, not just for the person but for the charging station too.

If companies want to discourage charging over 80% then they should implement a "congestion" fee during times of high usage. An increase in rate cost seems most appropriate but since it's about saving time maybe a time based fee on top of the electricity fee. Charges should be identified up front, drivers can get notified through the app or enter a phone number for a text message.

This should only happen when there is an actual congestion though. Zero need for it if there are three empty stalls...

 

[RickLightning]

Mean. LMFAO.

I was at an EA charger, started charging and realized I was using Plug and Charge and not the EA rate. Unplugged, charger would not reset until I pulled out and back in, they had tech to see vehicle hadn't moved.

Anyone who thinks signs work haven't charged very much. What will work is a tow truck and a big fine. Many lack the ability to comprehend that they have the right to inconvenience others for no reason.

"I charge to 100% because it is free".
"I am retired, I have the time to wait while it gets to 100%".
"Yes, my vehicle is worth $80,000, but this is FREE charging".

F them.

 

[RickKeen]

Agree the charge rate should be displayed on the dash to help people see when its slowing down.

Another area the charging sites could improve is to have some kind of management of the people waiting. A virtual waiting line in the app with an ETA and notification that its almost your turn and which station you are assigned to.

 

[Calvin H-C]

Having a fixed SOC cutoff penalizes people with a vehicle that is capable of continuing to charge at a fast rate above that level. I have never seen a charge rate on my Focus Electric above 53 kW, but it sustains that rate up to 90% SOC before beginning to drop off.

I know there are reasons why some people may need to go further. Heck, I've gotten into a conversation with another driver and ended up filling to about 97% before stopping, but there weren't others waiting.

I like to follow the principle that there is a social contract we all have that in exchange for all the benefits one receives for living in a society with shared resources is to at least act like one is not the only person in the entire universe. While I acknowledge we pay for those shared resources through taxes, the "bulk" purchase saves us over what it would cost us to go it alone.

With that in mind, while it would be nice if there were just more charge stations with more chargers available, there will be busy times and hogging a charger to get to 95% at 15 kW is not in line with that concept. Additionally, it probably is wasting your own time as well.

If there should be a cut-off, it should be based on some level of slow-down, not a fixed SOC. Once a vehicle starts asking for a rate that is, say 50% of what it was asking for at the peak of the session (this level is a whole other debate since vehicles can have drastically different charge curves), then something should happen.

Should it be a shutdown? Perhaps, but I'm more inclined to allow the session to continue, but at a greater cost. If you really need more juice while your vehicle is taking it slower, you should pay for the extra time it takes. Kind of like the way a meter in a taxi works - you get charged by distance when the taxi is above a certain speed, but when it gets into slow traffic, it switches to a time basis. Having a charger switch to time when the charge slows might not be a bad way to go, but that is a whole other debate.

 

[RickLightning]

I was commenting on the fact that signs don't work, not a list of all the reasons why someone may want to charge over 80%. Many threads on that already.

I have charged over 80%, even over 90%. I have never fast charged to 100%.

The rationale for the 90% limit (which is on the Lightning but not on the Mach-E) is battery life preservation by Ford.

Happy to allow slower cars? Yes, it gives me great pleasure to see a Chevy Bolt on a 350kW charger charging to 100% at a rate of 44kW. Almost as pleasing as seeing Lyft and Uber drivers sleeping in their vehicles charging to 100%.

My "F them" was to the category of people defined by my 3 reasons. I have had discussions over the last 3 years with many people at many fast chargers. A number of those charging to 100% are simply clueless. When explained to them, many understand. Many give one of those 3 reasons. Like the retired gentleman at a de-rated EA location who listened and said, "but I'm not traveling, and I didn't put in a home charger because VW gave me free charging, and time doesn't matter to me." I said "but it does matter to me, and that guy over there, because we're on trips, waiting for you and the guy who left his car and went shopping and he's at 100%". He shrugged. F him.

I helped a woman and her mother charge a luxury car, they were clueless. She said "I told my husband we need to put in a charger at home, I'm not going to parking lots. He said it was free, and I told him it may be free, but I'm not charging in parking lots." Love her.

 

[RocketGhost]

An 85% (or whatever) cutoff is somewhat arbitrary. It's partly due to the fact that most cars slow charging around there, but also it reflects the reality that most people don't need to charge more than that to get where they are going.

I think a solution is tiered pricing. 80-90% the price doubles. 90-100% the price triples. If people need to charge beyond a cutoff, they have that option.

And NO MORE free unlimited charging! If automakers want to offer an incentive give a dollar amount credit. Customers will burn through it quickly if they charge to 100%.

 

[RickLightning]

You choose to see only two arguments.

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