Ready For The Ford 80A Charge Station Pro

[pstansel]

I have a NEMA 14-50 already but it's on a transfer switch for my mobile generator (and incidentally where I intend to use the Ford to power the house instead). I'm honestly considering just putting in another 14-50 to charge the truck and selling the charging station. To put that charge station in will be damn expensive I believe. I do have the space and capacity so my panel is fine but it's a 30' run inside the basement over to where I would need it, a post for it, etc; I don't know... just feels like a huge waste for the maybe 2x a year that I'd need more than the 14-50.

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[Yellow Buddy]

Unless you are using SOOW (which is for temporary/portable installations only) the ground is not counted. And no it doesn't work like that. If you have 3 wires you would never get 80A per leg @ 120V. If it worked like that you would be putting 160A back into the neutral which would severely overload it and probably catch on fire.
You either draw 80A @ 120V or 80A @ 240V (or 80A @ 208V if it is a 3-phase service). It never draws individually 80A. Even in your house where you have a 3-wire feeding 2 separate circuits of plugs, the neutral only takes the un-balanced load between the 2 circuits.



It is 100% guaranteed to be manual adjustment. There is no way that the charger can know what the breaker is set to.

You're right, my mind went to generator capacity for some reason in terms of wiring it up where you can wire it up as a single phase or split for 240.

For the wiring I wanted to oversimplify it and didn't want someone to think of needing to only 3 literal wires given the question around wire gauging and whether or not a neutral was needed.

 

[pjorg]

I have a NEMA 14-50 already but it's on a transfer switch for my mobile generator (and incidentally where I intend to use the Ford to power the house instead). I'm honestly considering just putting in another 14-50 to charge the truck and selling the charging station. To put that charge station in will be damn expensive I believe. I do have the space and capacity so my panel is fine but it's a 30' run inside the basement over to where I would need it, a post for it, etc; I don't know... just feels like a huge waste for the maybe 2x a year that I'd need more than the 14-50.

You and I are in the the same area, so I figured I would share some cost info to make this less hypothetical for everyone.

I have a detached garage that is about 60' across my back yard from my house. It presently has a single 20 amp circuit.

Back in September, I had an electrician come out and quote me to prepare for an upgrade to support larger loads in the garage. (My home already has 200 amp service and room in the load center for the 100 amp branch.)

The quote was a little under $6,000 to:

• Open a trench between the house and garage
• Install a 1 1/4" conduit for 100 amp branch circuit from the main panel
• Install a 1" conduit with pull string (for low voltage use, like my home network)
• Install a 1" conduit with pull string (spare)
• Install a 20 circuit, 100 amp subpanel in garage

Material costs have been going up so it's probable that this quote will be higher when I call him back this spring, but maybe this is helpful as a planning figure for people. Most folks are probably not going to have to deal with the distance, conduit or Northeast labor rates that I do, so hopefully this is a relative upper boundary.

 

[RickLightning]

I am not an electrician.

When I inquired about options, my electric company scheduled a crew to come out and see what transformer was in the yard (in-ground utilities) as well as the cable size. Unnecessary, as another department knew those answers. Anyway, spoke to that other department and here's what he told me, which may apply to others:

- transformer is shared by myself and neighbor. Either of us can increase from 200 amp to 400 amp service (i.e. 320 amp usage) for free. If the second neighbor then upgrades, they will need to foot the cost of a bigger transformer (a few hundred dollars).

- While I have a 200amp feed from the meter box, inside the box is another set of lugs designed for a separate feed. Therefore, without a new meter, or new feed from the transformer, I can have a second 200 amp panel installed. He said "that's exactly what the extra set of lugs is designed for".

 

[Tony Burgh]

There will be plenty of SR owners who would still be interested. I’m one if those and will be looking to buy one.

The specs show almost 24 inches long. Even if I wanted to derate the evse to 60amps, its too long to fit in the space I plan to install. I doubt that I will even open the box.
Maybe a new thread will open on the forum for selling the charge stations when the time comes.

 

[Maquis]

That is why I am considering the 2nd service drop directly to the garage, I might be spending as much doing the houses service upgrade to 200 or 320 (400) with a branch conduit from house to garage.

My nephew is an electrician, so we will save a lot on labor, just equipment, permits and utility visits to make the tap & drop connections and install meter.

You’ll want to check with your utility about fixed charges associated with a second service. I’m on a rural Co-op and my monthly “facilities charge” is $43.00. If I were to have a second service installed it a garage or outbuilding, it would also have a $43.00 per month fixed charge. No way that would makes sense for me.

You could install a new, larger service at the garage and feed the house from there.

 

[Sdctcher]

You’ll want to check with your utility about fixed charges associated with a second service. I’m on a rural Co-op and my monthly “facilities charge” is $43.00. If I were to have a second service installed it a garage or outbuilding, it would also have a $43.00 per month fixed charge. No way that would makes sense for me.

You could install a new, larger service at the garage and feed the house from there.

Agree

It all depends on your location (rural/urban) and your utility. Here in KY my Co-Op charges $18 Fixed Monthly Charge + $0.09/kW (+taxes).

Couple years ago I had them do a new drop to a stable across a pasture and creek for a distance of about 300 feet. They had to put up a new pole and transformer to service a new "small-box" 100A service for my horses. They have a farm solution that specifies no up-front charge for the first 500 feet. Of course, we are a farm and it was a special rate for farming use.

Even better, 6 years ago I built a new Energy Star home and had to bring in power 1/2 mile from their closest poles up a hill, across the creek, and across pastures. They charged me about $3,200 and that included a 70 foot underground run from the last pole to the houses' 200A Panel and 6 new power poles. But it all depends on your utility and your relationship with them. It would pay to check out all solutions.

LOL - KY does have its good points (BTW - I was loving it being a High-Rent-District CA refugee a few years before).

 

[TaxmanHog]

You’ll want to check with your utility about fixed charges associated with a second service. I’m on a rural Co-op and my monthly “facilities charge” is $43.00. If I were to have a second service installed it a garage or outbuilding, it would also have a $43.00 per month fixed charge. No way that would makes sense for me.

You could install a new, larger service at the garage and feed the house from there.

Yup, I've thought about that scenario too, bring the 320/400 service to the garage, then 100 back to the house.

Or,

Update the house service entrance and meter to a 400 amp unit, then feed the existing 100 amp going to the house LC and then second lugs feed through emergency shut off (house end outside) to conduit or overhead run to the garage at 200amp sub panel.

I currently have a 200a meter and might get away with bare minimum of 100 to the garage/shop.

That would remove most of the bureaucratic issues and extra fee which is only $7/month on the house bill, I assume the same for a secondary service.

I'll bounce that of Nephew soon and hope to get ball rolling this spring once the ground has thawed

 

[Maquis]

Yup, I've thought about that scenario too, bring the 320/400 service to the garage, then 100 back to the house.

Or,

Update the house service entrance and meter to a 400 amp unit, then feed the existing 100 amp going to the house LC and then second lugs feed through emergency shut off (house end outside) to conduit or overhead run to the garage at 200amp sub panel.

I currently have a 200a meter and might get away with bare minimum of 100 to the garage/shop.

That would remove most of the bureaucratic issues and extra fee which is only $7/month on the house bill, I assume the same for a secondary service.

I'll bounce that of Nephew soon and hope to get ball rolling this spring once the ground has thawed

If my monthly connection fee was $7.00, I’d be in heaven! ?

 

[pstansel]

You and I are in the the same area, so I figured I would share some cost info to make this less hypothetical for everyone.

Thanks for the pricing info! I'm actually in the same boat with a detached garage (current 30amp service) but running anything to it also involves pulling up my walkway

 

[Yellow Buddy]

The specs show almost 24 inches long. Even if I wanted to derate the evse to 60amps, its too long to fit in the space I plan to install. I doubt that I will even open the box.
Maybe a new thread will open on the forum for selling the charge stations when the time comes.

You can probably wrap the cord around, that's what I do with my Tesla charger. A shorter cord is definitely easier to manage though. I'd be happy to take yours off of you, PM when you get it.

 

[Maquis]

Thanks for the pricing info! I'm actually in the same boat with a detached garage (current 30amp service) but running anything to it also involves pulling up my walkway

There are reasonable ways to go under existing concrete - especially if you going perpendicular to a walkway.

 

[pstansel]

There are reasonable ways to go under existing concrete - especially if you going perpendicular to a walkway.

I've got a stone paver walkway that runs up to the house. I would worry about it getting displaced. But either way my wife uses the garage for the Tesla so I think I'll have to brave the outside

 

[jefro]

While I have a 200amp feed from the meter box, inside the box is another set of lugs designed for a separate feed. Therefore, without a new meter, or new feed from the transformer, I can have a second 200 amp panel installed. He said "that's exactly what the extra set of lugs is designed for".

Not sure I get this.

 

[EVBill]

Not sure I get this.

The electrical service coming in from the transformer is capable of 400 Amps along with the meter. What I am understanding from the description is that there is a second set of lugs for attaching a second set of service entrance cables from the meter box, through a second conduit run (I forgot that here in cheap ass Michigan they do without the conduit and just run the jacketed service cable) to a 2nd 200 Amp panel inside the home, thus providing a total of 400 Amp service.

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