Is Ford Underestimating the Demand for the Pro Trim?

[metroshot]

Gen 1? I'm all in on the Pro now. I was in the XLT ER camp but getting a Gen 1 Electric truck that can satisfy 95% off all my uses for under $30k (I live in Oregon) is a no-brainer. I plan on buying it with Ford Options and selling it back to buy a nicer trim in 4 years.

Unfortunately, Ford's idea of allowing the Public to buy the cheapest fleet model (Pro SR) but not the ER fleet model (Pro ER) may end up backfiring. The almost $20k jump in price to get the ER for us consumers is causing others like me to just settle for the Pro SR. I have no problem driving my electric truck and waiting 4 years for Ford to get a better grasp on batteries and technology before investing $60k+.

Same here - but I want a daily commuter vehicle that can drive on the congested So Cal freeways solo in the Carpool / HOV lane.

We already have a PHEV that sports the clean air HOV exemption sticker so that we can ride solo in the carpool lanes alongside the Teslas, Leafs, Bolts, etc...

But the sticker is only good till end of 2022 so looking at another HOV exempt vehicle that is also practical.

Not interested in the ER version as I have other cars (PHEV & ICE) that will take care of the long distance or remote travels that I do on the weekends / holidays.

Going to use the Ford Options financing to get the $7500 tax credit along with my state + local $4500 incentives.

PRO SR is my first choice....

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[Blainestang]

Thanks, further along than I expected. I guess I was confusing the kw vs voltage of the charging rates, seems some refer to them alternately, the 200kw doesn't seem that high of a number then.

FWIW, the 800V capable chargers on the Electrify America network (which is the vast majority of the charge locations on that map) are capable of up to 350kW. It's just that 200kW is the highest minimum filter setting on Plugshare and it eliminates the 150kW chargers that are also found at some sites. So, filtering by 200kW would show only the locations that actually have 350kW chargers and not locations that have only 150kW chargers.

Another note is that not all vehicles, even 800V vehicles, will be able to charge at 350kW. The fastest-charging EV right now (in kW) is the Porsche Taycan w/ 800V charging and it maxes out at 270kW.

 

[diesel97]

Based on pricing the base ER XLT is $60k. Thats 53k + 7k extended range. Not sure how you got 55k. Also, factoring in taxes, add-ons, the price is $69k to me (before ev rebates).

However, as stated, the main reason why I don't consider Ford worth it is the outdated DC charging. As my comment stated, GM is launching with faster, 800v, DC charging which can cut charging times almost in half of what ford can do with less stress on the battery itself.

That's a lot of GM PR talk with nothing to show yet, everybody has to wait and see until 2024 if all things go right

 

[Fordskeptic]

I think the OP was suggesting that there could be a shift in demand. Most ICE pickups sold currently appear to be higher trims, crew cab, 4X4 based on personal observation. The price especially after tax rebates puts a 4x4, crew cab, fairly techy Pro lighning attainable for folks who could only dream of a mid or higher trimmed comparable ICE pick up.

It would be interesting to see what the Maverick order breakdown is by trim level. I am guessing, like the OP, that there's is a similar shift in the market. Consumers who may have wanted (not necessarily needed) a pickup but had only an small car budget can now afford a base Maverick and get the benefit of hybrid fuel economy. I think budget-constrained consumers, who want an EV, and want but don't necessarily need a pickup would jump on buying a PRO.

We will see soon enough when orders start coming in.

 

[astricklin]

I think budget-constrained consumers, who want an EV, and want but don't necessarily need a pickup would jump on buying a PRO.

We will see soon enough when orders start coming in.

Other BEV in the $40k price range or lower that make much more sense for someone who doesn't need a pickup.
VW id.4
Nissan Leaf
Chevy bolt/bolt euv (when they were on sale)
Mini Cooper se
Hyundai Kona/kia Nero
Mustang mach-e ($43k base)
I could be missing something but there's a lot of options for more practical daily drivers that are also more efficient and many of them significantly cheaper.

 

[adoublee]

The price especially after tax rebates puts a 4x4, crew cab, fairly techy Pro lighning attainable for folks who could only dream of a mid or higher trimmed comparable ICE pick up.

What is techy about the Pro other than being electric?

I will be happy to see a limited number of pedestrians parking F150s without the benefit of 360 cameras the entry level Pro does not come with.

I agree that a Pro SR at $40k should not be compared to other currently available electric cars and "SUVs". The Pro SR is a different thing, and frankly a different category than an XLT ER.

 

[Erik]

Other BEV in the $40k price range or lower that make much more sense for someone who doesn't need a pickup.
VW id.4
Nissan Leaf
Chevy bolt/bolt euv (when they were on sale)
Mini Cooper se
Hyundai Kona/kia Nero
Mustang mach-e ($43k base)
I could be missing something but there's a lot of options for more practical daily drivers that are also more efficient and many of them significantly cheaper.

For someone just looking for a cheap commuter car, those would be fine. I have a Fiat 500e and that has worked great for commuting, grocery shopping, and city trips You can get a used small EV for under $10k.

There is a big gap between small commuter cars and full size trucks in the EV market though. There are no mid size or full size EV SUVs yet like an Explorer EV or Expedition EV. The model Y is $55k and that is still not a mid size SUV while the Lightning Pro comes out to $32,500 after rebate.

If Ford plans to make an Explorer EV with Pro Power and home back up for under $40k before the tax incentives run out, I’ll trade in my Lightning. I would prefer to have a midsize SUV or a minivan.

 

[gorwell]

That's a lot of GM PR talk with nothing to show yet, everybody has to wait and see until 2024 if all things go right

Not GM PR, as far as I know, they've had zero marketing for this. All GM confirmed as 800v charging.

This is just basic understanding of the difference between 400v vs 800v charging.



Here is an article, from 2019, on why porcshe went with 800v charging for reference.

https://chargedevs.com/newswire/why-did-porsche-go-to-the-trouble-of-designing-an-800-v-taycan-ev/

 

[fitek]

I'm a van guy (had a Tacoma for a long time but got my first van in 2012) but the only van coming is the VW ID Buzz. No one seems to like the infotainment system in the VWs, and they've done away with physical buttons, which I cant stand; probably won't have the power outlets and other handy F150 stuff. The ID.4 is also really slow-- I don't need supercar performance but if I'm paying 50,000 American dollars it better be faster than our old oil burning, CV joints clicking Subaru.

I would never buy a sedan or something that can't carry a decent amount of outdoor gear.

I tried to think how the F150 could replace our Transit, which we use for road trips, but making a pickup into a camper seems like a lot more work and $ than a van (I'm sure folks will disagree, but a pop top, in bed camper is spendy) and the anticipated ER pricing isn't helpful. This car would be better as a replacement for our typical daily driving. It's going to get dinged, it's going to get dirty, and that Pro sure looks like a good deal.

 

[Snakebitten]

The internet is a funny place. I really really enjoy it, so don't get the wrong idea, but Ford isn't clueless. I might not LIKE the decisions they make regarding my personal preferences and opinions, but they do have some really brilliant folks within the organization. So does every other modern manufacturer.

When a company like Ford actually does make a bad decision, it's not likely because they were clueless, but rather because the wrong person in the conference room won the debate. (often lawyers and bean counters?)

You seriously think nobody at Ford knows that the Pro ER wouldn't be a hot item? Oh they know!

They also know that they could sell HDPP F150's in higher trims like hotcakes if every dealership actually stocked one. But they also know that for every one they sold was an F250 that didn't. Can you imagine an F150 HDPP Powerboost? It's an RV towing dream come true right now. But it's just not an option.

 

[Bippers]

I think the OP was suggesting that there could be a shift in demand. Most ICE pickups sold currently appear to be higher trims, crew cab, 4X4 based on personal observation. The price especially after tax rebates puts a 4x4, crew cab, fairly techy Pro lighning attainable for folks who could only dream of a mid or higher trimmed comparable ICE pick up.

It would be interesting to see what the Maverick order breakdown is by trim level. I am guessing, like the OP, that there's is a similar shift in the market. Consumers who may have wanted (not necessarily needed) a pickup but had only an small car budget can now afford a base Maverick and get the benefit of hybrid fuel economy. I think budget-constrained consumers, who want an EV, and want but don't necessarily need a pickup would jump on buying a PRO.

We will see soon enough when orders start coming in.

This is exactly what I was alluding to. For my own personal sake I don't really need a truck beyond the occasional need to move my project cars/parts cars around, but I still needed at least 7,500 lbs of towing capacity to do this. I also knew the next car I wanted to buy was electric, and the fact that I am going to be starting a family soon lead into the crew cab being a good family hauler/work commuter with very seldom truck usage.

 

[LightningShow]

Long story short...there's way more demand than production capacity so Ford can make whatever the hell they want and still sell it.

 

[Snakebitten]

Long story short...there's way more demand than production capacity so Ford can make whatever the hell they want and still sell it.

Ain't that the truth!
Especially with the current plight of barebones inventory.

 

[Fordskeptic]

@asricklin "techy" is relative. I am an old geezer who's looking to replace a 2007 ICE truck with the PRO. The word infotainment didn't even exist, when last I purchased a new truck (24 years ago). Of course, compared to other modern cars, especially EVs, the 12" touch screen display, sync 4, LED lighting, 120 v outlets, OTA updates, etc. are quite ordinary, even standard equipment, I guess, but to me these features are fairly techy.

 

[Erik]

I tried to think how the F150 could replace our Transit, which we use for road trips, but making a pickup into a camper seems like a lot more work and $ than a van (I'm sure folks will disagree, but a pop top, in bed camper is spendy) and the anticipated ER pricing isn't helpful.

The E Transit may be a good option some day if they create a version with 300 miles of range. I hope to buy an E Transit based campervan in 10 years. Using the EV battery instead of AGM batteries and propane generators should make it a lot easier to convert a Transit into a campervan.

In the meantime I will use the Lightning with a topper lift or bed mounted rooftop tent. That is still a step up from tent camping.

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