Lightning's range in cold weather... not very good

[sotek2345]

I don't recommend traveling with the lightning for several reasons: First off the few chargers there are often are out of service. Paying $.31-$.43/kwh isn't cheap. I have a platinum and on the interstate I'm lucky to get 2/mpk. At $.31/kwh that's a little over $15 per 100 miles. At $3/gal for gas comes to 5 gal which equates to 20 mpg. Not what I call economic. And if you pull a travel trailer you can cut your range in half.
If it's colder weather also expect a significant drop in range. Add to that at 2/mpk that's just 262 miles if you ran the battery empty, which you wouldn't do and to even come close to that you need to charge to 100% which is very hard on lithium batteries life span. And then there's the range anxiety wondering if you will make it to the next charger before you run out of power and will any of the chargers work when you get there. And stopping ever 3 hours to charge would be a pain, especially charging back up to the 100% as even fast chargers outputs are significantly reduced from 80%-100%. I know people do use them for travel but to be honest they really aren't that efficient or worth the worry when used for long distance traveling. The efficiency for me is getting 2.4 - 3 / mpk and only paying a max of $.12/kwh.

Gas is still more expensive around me (over $3 for regular and still around $4.50/gal for premium which is what my previous vehicles took). On the flip side, if you are in a per minute state (vs. per kWh), DC Fast charging charging can be much cheaper - $0.24c/min - which at 120kW is $0.12/kWh!

For real world costs, My Lighting can do the Albany area (NY) to Pittsburgh PA for about $35 in charging costs each way (real / measured - including costs to refill the battery at home. My old truck got about 15mpg on the highway and took premium, so it would cost $130-$140 each way. Huge savings - at least in my use case.

As far as charger availability and reliability, I haven't had any issues in the Northeast for any of our travels (Lots of trips in NY, travel to Maine, to Montreal and Thousand Islands in Canada, to Philly and Pittsburgh), though I do realize it is regional. Thankfully it should get better with time and network buildout.

As far as distance - I tend to hit charging stops about every 120 to 180 miles for a bathroom break or meal anyways, so I haven't had any issues there. The truck (and my wife's Mach-e) typically have more range than my bladder.

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[RickLightning]

I would never recommend the lightning to anyone that plans on using it anywhere other than locally. I only charge to the recommended 80% SOC and never have to worry about range even if it's cold outside and I'm towing my trailer. I also wouldn't have purchased it if I ever had to use a public charging station.

The recommendation is not 80%, it's either 90% or "less than 100%".

As to using a public charging station - I guess you wouldn't use a public gas station either?

You do you - but your views are contrary to the vast majority of EV owners.

I don't recommend traveling with the lightning for several reasons: First off the few chargers there are often are out of service. Paying $.31-$.43/kwh isn't cheap. I have a platinum and on the interstate I'm lucky to get 2/mpk. At $.31/kwh that's a little over $15 per 100 miles. At $3/gal for gas comes to 5 gal which equates to 20 mpg. Not what I call economic. And if you pull a travel trailer you can cut your range in half.
If it's colder weather also expect a significant drop in range. Add to that at 2/mpk that's just 262 miles if you ran the battery empty, which you wouldn't do and to even come close to that you need to charge to 100% which is very hard on lithium batteries life span. And then there's the range anxiety wondering if you will make it to the next charger before you run out of power and will any of the chargers work when you get there. And stopping ever 3 hours to charge would be a pain, especially charging back up to the 100% as even fast chargers outputs are significantly reduced from 80%-100%. I know people do use them for travel but to be honest they really aren't that efficient or worth the worry when used for long distance traveling. The efficiency for me is getting 2.4 - 3 / mpk and only paying a max of $.12/kwh.

There aren't "few chargers" and they aren't "often out of service". Yes, there need to be many more chargers, and they need to work on up time, but it vastly depends on WHERE you go to charge.

Many people don't drive more than 3 hours before stopping in gas powered vehicles. Nature calls...

Your numbers are flawed. You need to take into account that you leave with a full tank at a much lower cost. You then can often charge cheaper or free at your destination, and if you stop at a hotel with free charging that's another free tank.

As to an expectation of 12 cents per kWh, not only is that unrealistic for traveling, it's unrealistic for a good portion of the country at home.

 

[greenne]

Gas is still more expensive around me (over $3 for regular and still around $4.50/gal for premium which is what my previous vehicles took). On the flip side, if you are in a per minute state (vs. per kWh), DC Fast charging charging can be much cheaper - $0.24c/min - which at 120kW is $0.12/kWh!

For real world costs, My Lighting can do the Albany area (NY) to Pittsburgh PA for about $35 in charging costs each way (real / measured - including costs to refill the battery at home. My old truck got about 15mpg on the highway and took premium, so it would cost $130-$140 each way. Huge savings - at least in my use case.

As far as charger availability and reliability, I haven't had any issues in the Northeast for any of our travels (Lots of trips in NY, travel to Maine, to Montreal and Thousand Islands in Canada, to Philly and Pittsburgh), though I do realize it is regional. Thankfully it should get better with time and network buildout.

As far as distance - I tend to hit charging stops about every 120 to 180 miles for a bathroom break or meal anyways, so I haven't had any issues there. The truck (and my wife's Mach-e) typically have more range than my bladder.

Pennsylvania is a value vs gas costs...per minute.

Also, EvGo stations(if you an find them) are still per minute on the East Coast. EvGo 200 KwH stations are gold. Its worth noting I was able to get Charge+(plug n charge) installed and working on my Lightning at EvGo stations. Flawless so far...

 

[LightningShow]

I don't recommend traveling with the lightning for several reasons: First off the few chargers there are often are out of service. Paying $.31-$.43/kwh isn't cheap. I have a platinum and on the interstate I'm lucky to get 2/mpk. At $.31/kwh that's a little over $15 per 100 miles. At $3/gal for gas comes to 5 gal which equates to 20 mpg. Not what I call economic. And if you pull a travel trailer you can cut your range in half.
If it's colder weather also expect a significant drop in range. Add to that at 2/mpk that's just 262 miles if you ran the battery empty, which you wouldn't do and to even come close to that you need to charge to 100% which is very hard on lithium batteries life span. And then there's the range anxiety wondering if you will make it to the next charger before you run out of power and will any of the chargers work when you get there. And stopping ever 3 hours to charge would be a pain, especially charging back up to the 100% as even fast chargers outputs are significantly reduced from 80%-100%. I know people do use them for travel but to be honest they really aren't that efficient or worth the worry when used for long distance traveling. The efficiency for me is getting 2.4 - 3 / mpk and only paying a max of $.12/kwh.

Everyone has different priorities. I don't find any of the issues you mention to be all that concerning when weighing out the pros/cons. I've roadtripped a bunch in the Lightning, I've never had to leave a charging station because it wasn't working or full (it's easy to figure out which stations are busy in the apps). I live in a cold climate and I drive up to the mountains in NH from MA on a regular basis. Yesterday I went to my regular ski hill, it was 25-30 degrees and I used 70% of the battery for a 170 mile round trip. If I wanted to go much farther north it would eventually start getting to be difficult to find charging but it's good for my normal trips. For me, the areas where it falls short of ICE trucks it makes up for by being a far, far superior driving experience.

 

[The Rogue Robot]

I have lariat ER and based on my driving habits, I typically get 280-290 on a full charge, based on the truck but I've never truly tested it since I'm not brave enough to take it below 30 miles. I live in Michigan and the weather got cold this week. Now my range is under 190. Going from an ICE with a 36 gallon tank, getting close to 600 miles per tank to under 190 does not make me want to keep it. I've also had several issues with the technology (like my phone never connects). I have a '21 Bronco and have not had any issues with the tech.

Anyone else having these types of issues?

My Bolt has been getting under 2 mi/kwh in the freezing weather, and the Lightning seems to still be around 1.7. I'm much happier with the Lightnings cold weather range than the Bolt.

 

[3rdgenfan]

My Bolt has been getting under 2 mi/kwh in the freezing weather, and the Lightning seems to still be around 1.7. I'm much happier with the Lightnings cold weather range than the Bolt.

I was getting about 190-200mi on my '20 Bolt during my commute in the winter, the Lightning is about the same with a slightly larger pack but is much more comfortable to daily.

 

[Traconesu]

Gas is still more expensive around me (over $3 for regular and still around $4.50/gal for premium which is what my previous vehicles took). On the flip side, if you are in a per minute state (vs. per kWh), DC Fast charging charging can be much cheaper - $0.24c/min - which at 120kW is $0.12/kWh!

For real world costs, My Lighting can do the Albany area (NY) to Pittsburgh PA for about $35 in charging costs each way (real / measured - including costs to refill the battery at home. My old truck got about 15mpg on the highway and took premium, so it would cost $130-$140 each way. Huge savings - at least in my use case.

As far as charger availability and reliability, I haven't had any issues in the Northeast for any of our travels (Lots of trips in NY, travel to Maine, to Montreal and Thousand Islands in Canada, to Philly and Pittsburgh), though I do realize it is regional. Thankfully it should get better with time and network buildout.

As far as distance - I tend to hit charging stops about every 120 to 180 miles for a bathroom break or meal anyways, so I haven't had any issues there. The truck (and my wife's Mach-e) typically have more range than my bladder.

To each his own. I'm 73 retired. My traveling days are over. But certainly wouldn't pay the price public charge are. I bought my lightning to replace a 10 mpg 2014 F150 gas hog. Actually traded in my 2018 prius too because even averaging 54 mpg with it I get better mileage range with my lightning. Local driving only, tops 60 miles driving a day. 1.7 - 2 miles per kwh in winter at $.075/kwh and 2 - 2.4 mpk summer at $.12/kwh.

 

[COrocket]

Just like I know that range drops in the cold, I know that batteries degrade over time. I think (hope?) that my ER range will still be acceptable to me when that happens.

Jack London said “the purpose of a truck is to drive, I will not spend my days trying to prolong my truck’s battery, I shall use its power.”…. Ok, maybe that’s what he meant to say…

While I have the truck, I will use it. I don’t want to say “I’ll never fast charge,” or ” I’ll never charge above 80%,” or give in and drive an ICE car for all road trips. I don’t think that’s hard headed, there’s a set of pros and cons with any vehicle. To me, the ER makes the pros outweigh the cons. An SR, doesn’t.

Scott

After looking at some numbers I’m in agreement that the ER battery is a no brainer for using the vehicle for more than just an around the town vehicle. Our first EV was a Tesla originally rated for 310 miles and for taking trips I wouldn’t want a vehicle with any less range.

Usually you are working the battery from 80% to 10% between charges, above 80% the charging slows to a crawl and below 10% you risk running out of juice with a detour. So the easily workable 70% range of a 320 mile battery is about 224 miles. Take off maybe another 10% if I’m driving at true interstate speeds (not whatever speed the EPA uses for their calculations) and you are down to about 200 miles between charges, maybe 180 If you account for the battery degradation over the first 100,000 miles or so. 200 miles comfortably between stops in practice has felt about right before needing to stop to stretch the legs or a restroom or food break. And that’s before even talking about cold weather range loss.

This all assumes that the chargers are perfectly spaced 200 miles apart, which of course they are not. This is where the sustained charge speeds of the ER battery at low SOC really come into play, so you give the nav computer more flexibility to either optimize leapfrogging the shorter legs by focusing on short charges at low SOC when the charge rate is highest, or it allows for charge stops to be eliminated if you can stay longer in one spot and use nearly the full extra battery capacity.

Case in point, I’m looking at doing a drive from Florida to Colorado soon (about 2000 miles), and according to ABRP it would require 14 hours of charging time with a SR Lightning, vs 8 hours with the ER Lightning. So even though the ER only has 25% more range, you can travel with nearly 50% less charging time. It’s why I talk to people that are trying to replace an ICE car and need to travel occasionally to get the largest battery option they can afford, because on extended trips it makes a massive difference.

 

[Phil0110]

Just don't leave it for a long time, otherwise, the engine will be frozen in really cold temperatures. Perhaps you have problems with the alarm system.

 

[Lightning Rod]

After looking at some numbers I’m in agreement that the ER battery is a no brainer for using the vehicle for more than just an around the town vehicle. Our first EV was a Tesla originally rated for 310 miles and for taking trips I wouldn’t want a vehicle with any less range.

Usually you are working the battery from 80% to 10% between charges, above 80% the charging slows to a crawl and below 10% you risk running out of juice with a detour. So the easily workable 70% range of a 320 mile battery is about 224 miles. Take off maybe another 10% if I’m driving at true interstate speeds (not whatever speed the EPA uses for their calculations) and you are down to about 200 miles between charges, maybe 180 If you account for the battery degradation over the first 100,000 miles or so. 200 miles comfortably between stops in practice has felt about right before needing to stop to stretch the legs or a restroom or food break. And that’s before even talking about cold weather range loss.

This all assumes that the chargers are perfectly spaced 200 miles apart, which of course they are not. This is where the sustained charge speeds of the ER battery at low SOC really come into play, so you give the nav computer more flexibility to either optimize leapfrogging the shorter legs by focusing on short charges at low SOC when the charge rate is highest, or it allows for charge stops to be eliminated if you can stay longer in one spot and use nearly the full extra battery capacity.

Case in point, I’m looking at doing a drive from Florida to Colorado soon (about 2000 miles), and according to ABRP it would require 14 hours of charging time with a SR Lightning, vs 8 hours with the ER Lightning. So even though the ER only has 25% more range, you can travel with nearly 50% less charging time. It’s why I talk to people that are trying to replace an ICE car and need to travel occasionally to get the largest battery option they can afford, because on extended trips it makes a massive difference.

I had to Google ABRP. That is a really nice app! I have so much more to learn about this EV stuff.

Thanks.

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