F-150 Lightning to gain access to Tesla Superchargers! Get standard NACS port starting 2025!

[Pioneer74]

The con will be that CCS chargers will be the majority of the stations and Ford owners will require an adapter to use the most common chargers. As of now nobody but Tesla is planning to make an NACS charging network. But multiple competitors will have larger networks than Tesla in the next 5-10 years.

You're also assuming that Ford doesn't have both CCS and NACS ports on upcoming vehicles.

Not saying they will, but Ford hasn't said they won't.

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[queuewho]

That's true.

Though I'll be shocked if VW/EA changes course. And that's who will be the biggest impediment to unifying on NACS.

I can't imagine GM ignoring this. They could make the same promises and immediately take away this new talking point from Ford.

 

[astricklin]

No, they opened it up in November of 2022.

Long long after either model was designed, built and sold.

Ahh I see they did officially open it up in Nov 22.
However, I believe that the previous opening of patents in 2014 technically would have allowed anyone to use the Tesla connector but not necessarily the supercharger stations. Using Tesla's patents means that they can use yours, so I'm guessing Ford wasn't too keen on allowing that. I'm guessing the newer 'opening' of the network is a separate agreement from the open patent agreement.

 

[p52Ranch]

You're also assuming that Ford doesn't have both CCS and NACS ports on upcoming vehicles.

Not saying they will, but Ford hasn't said they won't.

Although we would all like to have both charging ports available on 2025 Fords, I think the odds of that happening is about 0%. The bean counters will make sure that doesn't happen.

Two different ports would be a significant cost per vehicle. No way Ford is going to add redundant charging ports. Instead customers will buy CCS to NACS adaptors just like Tesla owners do today.

Also why install a second inferior connector on your vehicle when you have just switched to a superior design? Maybe this time Betamax will win out over VHS.....

The market is reacting as positively to this new as we are in this thread. F is up 7.5% so far today.

 

[astricklin]

That's true.

Though I'll be shocked if VW/EA changes course. And that's who will be the biggest impediment to unifying on NACS.

I believe that evgo has implemented plug and charge on Tesla vehicles using a ccs to nacs adapter. EA could easily install nacs plugs on stations, or use adapters. EA is already integrated into the Ford plug and charge system.

 

[Zprime29]

But multiple competitors will have larger networks than Tesla in the next 5-10 years.

I would like to know what you've been reading to make that claim. Everything I've read says otherwise, for instance:
Tesla Installed More DC Fast Chargers In Q1 Than Any Other EV Charging Network

 

[ivan256]

Also why install a second inferior connector on your vehicle when you have just switched to a superior design? Maybe this time Betamax will win out over VHS.....

Have to be that guy. VHS won because it was better. Beta lost because it was worse. Consumers wanted longer recording time, and Beta couldn't do it. The only advantage Beta had was a slightly better image quality in limited circumstances. And a mythos carried on by all the people who got burned buying the losing standard.

I think you're right though that Ford won't install multiple connector types.

 

[Zprime29]

Tesla cables are liquid cooled, highly unlikely that any adaptor will increase the length. Maybe a right angle adaptor would help? I do recall that Tesla said their v4 SC's will have increased cable length.

On which is superior, there are many articles but I believe Munro teardown does the best job.
https://driveteslacanada.ca/news/munro-associates-explain-why-teslas-nacs-is-superior-to-ccs-video/

Final thought, the EU uses a different style CCS than what we have here, so Tesla is not already making cars with our CCS and shouldn't just use the EU design here.

 

[Amps]

Two different ports would be a significant cost per vehicle.

How about one charging port with CCS and NACS receptacles? Emma Bergg did use the word [studying] 'options' in her response to Jim Farley.

 

[GDN]

Let’s just hope they start making stations more truck friendly

I'm sure this will come - but jeez - rain on Tesla - EA isn't really any better sometimes the way you have to maneuver.

No one wants to realize we are still in a growing period. No one here wants to know what Tesla owners did for ALL of us the first 6 or 7 years that company was in business. It wasn't until about 2016 that the network was starting to take off. Those early adopters did a lot to be able to own and support Tesla. It is about 99.5% on those people for making possible what we have today - From Tesla and from Ford.

The stations will adapt. Cables will adapt. We will adapt. However if you want it all day one you need to go buy a Powerboost or ICE.

 

[GDN]

The con will be that CCS chargers will be the majority of the stations and Ford owners will require an adapter to use the most common chargers. As of now nobody but Tesla is planning to make an NACS charging network. But multiple competitors will have larger networks than Tesla in the next 5-10 years.

That will never happen. You talk about the majority being CCS today, but not in the usable DCFC. Farley still looked stupid today by quoting the THOUSANDS of plugs in the Ford network. They are not DCFC. Still misleading consumers.

I hope you are buying stock in those companies you so believe in. There is no looking back for the Tesla network and standard at this point.

 

[ivan256]

Tesla cables are liquid cooled, highly unlikely that any adaptor will increase the length. Maybe a right angle adaptor would help? I do recall that Tesla said their v4 SC's will have increased cable length.

On which is superior, there are many articles but I believe Munro teardown does the best job.
https://driveteslacanada.ca/news/munro-associates-explain-why-teslas-nacs-is-superior-to-ccs-video/

Final thought, the EU uses a different style CCS than what we have here, so Tesla is not already making cars with our CCS and shouldn't just use the EU design here.

Munro cares about efficiency and manufacturability. "Better" from his perspective is not necessarily the same as from other points of view. I have repaired (or scrapped) enough equipment where the same pins were used for different voltages and were damaged by a fused contactor to have my opinion changed by elegance and simplicity. The high-voltage DC should have dedicated pins.

Don't get me wrong, CCS is an ugly, giant, expensive, clunky connector that only a committee could love. But electrically, it's the one I'd prefer to plug my expensive device into.

 

[ivan256]

Farley still looked stupid today by quoting the THOUSANDS of plugs in the Ford network. They are not DCFC. Still misleading consumers.

There are over 5000 DCFC plugs in the Ford network (vs over 12k in the Tesla network). Numbers from a link somebody responded to me with above...

The important bit is that the current numbers are orders of magnitude off from what we need. The vast majority of DCFC ports haven't been built yet. And they might not use either of the current plugs.

 

[Texas Dan]

I would like to know what you've been reading to make that claim. Everything I've read says otherwise, for instance:
Tesla Installed More DC Fast Chargers In Q1 Than Any Other EV Charging Network

I’ve been reading the NEVI plans. TEVI plan alone has thousands of fast chargers at over 400 locations. There’s no way Tesla can keep up with NEVI.

 

[Chado]

Really have to admire how Farley is not afraid to praise Tesla, for the most part (he did make a remark about building cars in tents at one point).

Taking the strongest points of another company and joining it with yours without being concerned about what others think while benefiting the owners and shareholders. A+

I also remember reading something about how Tesla's superchargers are cheaper to build with a quicker install time compared to the others. Really makes Tesla feel like an efficient private company and all old-school OEMs are bloated government run.

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