Utah to require GPS tracking for EVs...

[RickLightning]

As far as non-refundable, if I sell my vehicle the day after I register it, I get no money back. Nor is the registration transferable, just the title.

Knowing how this works, when I got the Lighting in May I transferred the registration from the F-150 to it. I had to pay the full year's EV fee of $148 even though it's only for 6 months until the registration expires. BUT, I didn't have to pay the registration fee, which would have been very large, because the plates were already registered. Then, I paid for the registration for 6 months for the F-150.

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[bmwhitetx]

Eleven kWh is the amount legislators determined is the equivalent of one gallon of gasoline.per one legislator:

The EPA set this in 2010 as 33.7 kWh and is the basis for the mpge estimates we see on the windows sticker. I realize that it was based on the Volt and Leaf but 11 seems like another way to increase the revenue or in his words - another way to "get them". I can't believe the average EV now has 1/3 the efficiency of a Volt.

EDIT: I misread the wiki article. 33.7 is the theoretical. 11 kWh is in the ballpark of EV efficiency.

 

[p52Ranch]

I just renewed my Oklahoma tags. They have a $158 full electric vehicle “fee” as part of the registration. The Oklahoma state fuel tax is $0.19 per gallon (gas and diesel).

If I compare the F250 I replaced with the Lightning, the $158 in state fuel tax would be collected over the purchase of 832 gallons of fuel. At 12.5 mpg I could drive 10,395 miles in the F250.

I’m underusing my Lightning as I’ve only put 8950 miles on it the past year. Or, I’m overpaying my share of state taxes for transportation.

 

[LancerBoom]

Iowa is double dipping starting this summer. 3 years ago they imposed an additional annual registration fee of $130/BEV and $65/PHEV to cover road tax for the "typical" vehicle. Must have realized that many drive through Iowa on I80 and I35 so starting July 1, there is an additional, new 2.6 cent/kWh fee imposed on energy dispensed into a battery by a public charging station (dealer) OR by a business that is charging their own fleet (user). They must get a license and report/remit every 6 months. They excluded personal residence. Not sure how they will handle SE business owners like farmers (me) that register their vehicles as business but charge at home

I calculate that a fleet owner or someone using "public" chargers paying registration and getting 2 mi/kwh on a Lightning will pay almost 2.5 cents/mile. A regular F150 getting 20 mpg would pay 1.3 cents/mile. Also, they lowered their gas tax on E15+ gas 6 cents (20%) below E0-E10 ethanol tax to promote higher ethanol blends and is requiring all gas stations install E15+ pumps AND paying stations $50,000 per E15+ pump by 2026. E15 gets less mpg too. So seems its political vs the desire to maintain road tax.

 

[Maquis]

The EPA set this in 2010 as 33.7 kWh and is the basis for the mpge estimates we see on the windows sticker. I realize that it was based on the Volt and Leaf but 11 seems like another way to increase the revenue or in his words - another way to "get them". I can't believe the average EV now has 1/3 the efficiency of a Volt.

The energy in a gallon of gasoline is based on physics. It has nothing to do with being “based on a car.”
It can vary slightly based on formulation, but 33 to 34 kWh per gallon is the correct conversion.

Edit - Utah probably picked 11 because an EV will travel about the same number of miles on 11 kWh as an equivalent ICE will on a gallon of gasoline.

 

[CookieMonster]

Regardless of your stance on taxes and their excessive nature, it is fair to expect EV drivers to pay their share for road use. However from a privacy/civil liberties perspective this is not It. This violates the Fourth and Fourteenth amendments. There could be yearly inspections where the mileage is recorded, which is already done in states with safety inspections. For those that wish to volunteer to join such a program, sure, but this should in no way ever be mandatory.

https://www.msn.com/en-US/news/scie...es-to-tax-drivers-per-mile-driven/ar-AA1fsvR8

I live in Utah and the program is optional, it's been around for a while. Utah is a leader here but I don't think they'll ever mandate it. If you don't opt in, you pay a flat fee for the road tax with your annual registration. If you opt in, you pay a certain amount per mile until you match the flat fee and that's it - so you won't ever pay more than the flat fee if you opt in.

 

[ivan256]

I agree that people using the roads should pay for them.

Everybody uses the roads. Unless you're some subsistence farming prepper living in a bunker somewhere.

When you eat you used the roads. When you buy something you used the roads. When you turn on the lights you used the roads.

Use taxes are regressive. Also any link between a particular tax and particular spending is just spin. Legislatures tax and spend from a mixed pool of dollars and they can create or repeal any earmark at any time.

Don't get tricked into unnecessary government surveillance by lies about paying a fair share.

 

[Mike G]

The fuel economy fee and EV fee in Virginia are designed to help the state recoup fuel taxes that are not paid at the pump. These fees are collected at the time of initial registration and subsequent renewals. This eliminates the need for GPS tracking.

Same in Alabama. Flat rate.

 

[Maxx]

Everybody uses the roads. Unless you're some subsistence farming prepper living in a bunker somewhere.

When you eat you used the roads. When you buy something you used the roads. When you turn on the lights you used the roads.

Use taxes are regressive. Also any link between a particular tax and particular spending is just spin. Legislatures tax and spend from a mixed pool of dollars and they can create or repeal any earmark at any time.

Don't get tricked into unnecessary government surveillance by lies about paying a fair share.

I know trying to tie a source of revenue to a specific type of spending is often a losing battle but if it was possible, tying road use income to it's maintenance would make sense. If a corporation could see the numbers associated to transporting my food from California to Maryland in form of road use not just taxes, there would be more likely to buy from Maryland. That is less energy consumption and less pollution. But if it is coming from a general tax fund, no one will make the association. The old lady that don't buy much and don't drive anywhere should not pay for the road I use for my Amazon order or 2000 mile unnecessary vacation. My insurance company is already asking me how miles I put on each of my cars. Government can ask the same question.

All that said, I am not OK with any kind of surveillance. In fact I have more problem with Google and Ford tracking me than I do with government doing it. Corporations will sell me out to anyone as long as there is a penny in it for them. Government is likely to cause a problems for me just due to incompetence more than malicious intent (I am just not that important).

 

[Joneii]

This is great. I needed new material for my conspiracy theories, since all of my other ones have come true (I never thought the UFO ones would pan out, but I guess you just never know). Isn’t that massive government data center located in Utah? No wonder they want to track us. I can see the evil geniuses at work in their laboratories as we speak.
All joking aside, government tracking citizens should be a red flag warning for anyone—it’s bad enough we let the corporations do it, at least the the government should have to work to spy on us.

 

[ivan256]

All that said, I am not OK with any kind of surveillance. In fact I have more problem with Google and Ford tracking me than I do with government doing it. Corporations will sell me out to anyone as long as there is a penny in it for them. Government is likely to cause a problems for me just due to incompetence more than malicious intent (I am just not that important).

https://www.aclum.org/en/ban-sale-location-data#:~:text=THE LOCATION SHIELD ACT,-An Act protecting&text=Prohibit companies from selling, leasing,collecting or processing location data.

Massachusetts is trying to ban the sale of individual location data. I believe this should be extended to ANY personal information. But location data is a start!

In addition to the malicious uses and scary security issues that would be solved if corporations had no incentive to keep location data beyond what was necessary to provide the service they sell to you, there would be additional benefits. For example companies wouldn't be incentivized to limit your access to applications and features in order to maintain control over the valuable location data. This is the primary driver behind companies removing CarPlay from their products. And your phone manufacturer not letting you change the default map application. And all sorts of other things you don't realize you can't do simply because if you were allowed to do them you might give the valuable location data to some other company instead.

As for the government, the biggest worry is definitely not incompetence. There are plenty of competent people in the government, and no matter what you believe or what your lifestyle is, there is somebody in office or in civil service who is motivated to do whatever is necessary to change it. And some thing you enjoy is always somebody else's evidence of how terrible you are, complete with some constituency that agrees.

 

[RickLightning]

I tell my insurance company each year my annual mileage. They tell my state I have insurance electronically.

Have me fill out a form that records my odometer each year, with statements that if I don't put down the correct mileage I a) am committing insurance fraud and b) am committing tax fraude (with state). Maybe that would go over better.

It will be interesting what the $5m Michigan survey has in it.

 

[jimfigler]

Exactly. You could self report mileage and the gov could check it against occasional auto inspections or during sales/transfers. It's not rocket science.

CA doesn't require a yearly state safety inspection of motor vehicles? NY does and the vehicle mileage is recorded and stored with state safety inspection.

 

[Maxx]

Massachusetts is trying to ban the sale of individual location data. I believe this should be extended to ANY personal information. But location data is a start!

In addition to the malicious uses and scary security issues that would be solved if corporations had no incentive to keep location data beyond what was necessary to provide the service they sell to you, there would be additional benefits. For example companies wouldn't be incentivized to limit your access to applications and features in order to maintain control over the valuable location data. This is the primary driver behind companies removing CarPlay from their products. And your phone manufacturer not letting you change the default map application. And all sorts of other things you don't realize you can't do simply because if you were allowed to do them you might give the valuable location data to some other company instead

That is great. We may be way behind many European countries but as long as we are moving in the right direction, our grand children may be OK (our generation’s data is already out there). I regularly get letters telling me all my sensitive data is compromised but I will be fine.

There is a show on apple TV called severance. I have not watched it yet but it sounds like employees work memories and personal memories are partitioned. Until corporatiins and government agencies start doing that to everyone, any risk to individual’s privacy can be exploited to compromise national security. I simply see government‘s relaxed attitude about privacy laws as incompetence.

 

[chl]

The fuel economy fee and EV fee in Virginia are designed to help the state recoup fuel taxes that are not paid at the pump. These fees are collected at the time of initial registration and subsequent renewals. This eliminates the need for GPS tracking.

We have a GPS system in Virginia now too, it's optional, call Virginia Mileage Choice.

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